73 replies to this topic

[av8tor]

I need a little help gents. I spent the first half of my life as a Marine, where your word and honor were almost as important as your devotion to your craft. Then I got into desert racing which is a tight nit family, and if you where a cheater or if you drove past someone in distress you never showed your face again. But here I am at Sebring and DS walks into the hotel like he had never cheated before in his life. Why do we have rules. Why do we have a class. Why not just have the SCCA GP, bring whatever you want, fastest guy wins.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Danny got caught he paid the price to his image, his brand, his rep... I have no problem personally with Danny what so ever... No problem with racing against him or worry about him! Sucks that this happened, and he got caught, but at the end of the day he isn't harvy weinstein or Charley sheen or whoever we have bigger problems in life then some guy with rear arm slots just my 2c...

[BNaumann]

You mean he wasn't wearing his scarlet letter? That's some nerve...

[av8tor]

Guess it's just me, I have some pride in the fact I don't cheat. Need to find a new hobby apparently. Car for sale ESR 2000, raced 4 times by Drago and 3xs by me. $33,000 and it's yours.
I'm gong back to the desert.

[av8tor]

Danny got caught he paid the price to his image, his brand, his rep... I have no problem personally with Danny what so ever... No problem with racing against him or worry about him! Sucks that this happened, and he got caught, but at the end of the day he isn't harvy weinstein or Charley sheen or whoever we have bigger problems in life then some guy with rear arm slots just my 2c...

No Kyle,it doesn't suck that he caught got, it sucks that he cheated!
You are a hero in my book and a great guy, why tolerate cheaters? It's not like he did something that was hard to measure or technically confusing, he just cheated. Plain and simple.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

No Kyle,it doesn't suck that he caught got, it sucks that he cheated!
You are a hero in my book and a great guy, why tolerate cheaters? It's not like he did something that was hard to measure or technically confusing, he just cheated. Plain and simple.

Your right in that he cheated and yes he was caught... But he did pay a big price Imo... Talked to him at the bar her at Sebring, and I honestly have no problem with Danny, I jokingly call him decietful Danny but at the end of the day I really have not problem with the man, do I have a problem with his actions yes I do and did and called it out! But I think that's about all that can be expected, even jesus forgave those that crusified him...

Danny in my book has a clean slate with me and I think you will never see anything like this from him again.

He will surely have a million FB posts of how great he is for being 100 years old etc but that's just the peacock we all know as Danny.

Just my opinion here but I can surely see how many could be very upset as he has railed very hard against those he thought were cheating only to get caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

[Steve Scheifler]

Please forgive the length, it’s personal...

It comes down to culture doesn’t it? The Marines have theirs, your close knit group in the desert has theirs, and sadly much of auto racing has this. It spans way back in time and some of the biggest offenders are still celebrated today like certain outlaws of the old west.

I’m not saying Danny is a product of that culture, I don’t know whether he is even vaguely aware of the history of auto racing and his choices may have been purely about self promotion and ego. But the culture is what allows him to return so soon, eyes not even averted let alone head held low. I’m not suggesting that we excommunicate him for life but there does need to be a stiff price. Kyle, what price has he paid by the way? You can’t lose a race, prizes, a reputation or the respect that you clearly hadn’t earned, no matter where you would have finished playing it straight.

Over the years of the SCCA there have been different attitudes about cheating within various classes, ranging from strictly taboo to simply assumed. In showroom stock it was more how and could it be proved, not if, and whether you did it on your own or the manufacturers lent a hand with tricks and special parts.

In the case of our class the tone was set pretty much on day one, with one of the founders bringing over the “tech shed legal” attitude and fostering that culture amongst his many fans and followers. That is a fact and it is thoroughly documented in the archives of the original SM website.

As a class and a community we’ve actually come a long, long way since then, even if I’m no more popular than I was a dozen years ago. So I do get it, but perhaps allow some credit for progress made. There will always be those who value winning over honor and others who just genuinely think we take it all too seriously. The rest of us have to decide whether or not to let them chase us away, ignore them, or make an effort to expose and stop them.

Decades before I could afford to race I hung out at the track just to be part of it. On one occasion, without any real thought of dishonesty or guilt I almost gleefully helped someone cheat. I wasn’t much more than a kid and in my mind it was just part of the game, right? Fortunately we got caught that very first time, and I was the one who had to remove the offending parts and hand them to tech. When getting the tools I contemplated how with a little slight of hand I could palm the evidence and replace it with unmodified parts, but that’s when the shame started setting in.

We talked about it a lot afterwards and both came to recognize what we had done to ourselves and to the other racers. It costs a lot of money to race, a lot more than I had back then that’s for sure. As now, some of the other guys out there could afford the best of everything without a thought, and others had to scrimp and save to do a couple local races each year. But as we belatedly came to understand, the bottom line is that by cheating in even a small way we had effectively stolen from each of them, and we weren’t the least proud of that.

I don’t recall having told that story on the old site, but those familiar with my crusades in the years just before and after SM became a national class may not be altogether surprised.

[sentercut]

I hear both of you. I spent many years racing in the AMA, and it was the same way. I recall Mike Lafferty chasing his 7th or 8th national title in National Enduro and I was a few rows ahead of him, and he stopped when he saw me pinned under my Husaberg to see if I was OK. He lost that race by a few seconds, and thus that years national championship. Cheating is a slap in the face to every participant, especially when you are one of the lead ambassadors of your class.  I have found the whole incident a bit confusing and frustrating; but the bottom line is that there are always bad apples, and I am not one to dole out punishment or consequences. 

 

I would have liked him to made more of a public statement of what really happened and own it to the letter, but that can be difficult for a prideful person.

 

In the end he is just a guy like me that screws up and needs forgiveness. Might be the only thing that saves him.

 

So, don't leave the class because of this. Stay and be part of improving it. For every one of these type incidents there are hundreds of positive incidents at every race, and I know you know that to be true. 

 

Either way, it is finished. I hope he gets that. 

[Martinracing98]

Guess it's just me, I have some pride in the fact I don't cheat. Need to find a new hobby apparently. Car for sale ESR 2000, raced 4 times by Drago and 3xs by me. $33,000 and it's yours.
I'm gong back to the desert.

I am coming over from Spec Racer Ford. Cheating is definitely a concern for me too. I like to think it does not happen in SRF like it appears to in SM. That is probably naive. I guess I will just race the way I feel is right and enjoy myself

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Please forgive the length, it’s personal...

It comes down to culture doesn’t it? The Marines have theirs, your close knit group in the desert has theirs, and sadly much of auto racing has this. It spans way back in time and some of the biggest offenders are still celebrated today like certain outlaws of the old west.

I’m not saying Danny is a product of that culture, I don’t know whether he is even vaguely aware of the history of auto racing and his choices may have been purely about self promotion and ego. But the culture is what allows him to return so soon, eyes not even averted let alone head held low. I’m not suggesting that we excommunicate him for life but there does need to be a stiff price. Kyle, what price has he paid by the way? You can’t lose a race, prizes, a reputation or the respect that you clearly hadn’t earned, no matter where you would have finished playing it straight.

Over the years of the SCCA there have been different attitudes about cheating within various classes, ranging from strictly taboo to simply assumed. In showroom stock it was more how and could it be proved, not if, and whether you did it on your own or the manufacturers lent a hand with tricks and special parts.

In the case of our class the tone was set pretty much on day one, with one of the founders bringing over the “tech shed legal” attitude and fostering that culture amongst his many fans and followers. That is a fact and it is thoroughly documented in the archives of the original SM website.

As a class and a community we’ve actually come a long, long way since then, even if I’m no more popular than I was a dozen years ago. So I do get it, but perhaps allow some credit for progress made. There will always be those who value winning over honor and others who just genuinely think we take it all too seriously. The rest of us have to decide whether or not to let them chase us away, ignore them, or make an effort to expose and stop them.

Decades before I could afford to race I hung out at the track just to be part of it. On one occasion, without any real thought of dishonesty or guilt I almost gleefully helped someone cheat. I wasn’t much more than a kid and in my mind it was just part of the game, right? Fortunately we got caught that very first time, and I was the one who had to remove the offending parts and hand them to tech. When getting the tools I contemplated how with a little slight of hand I could palm the evidence and replace it with unmodified parts, but that’s when the shame started setting in.

We talked about it a lot afterwards and both came to recognize what we had done to ourselves and to the other racers. It costs a lot of money to race, a lot more than I had back then that’s for sure. As now, some of the other guys out there could afford the best of everything without a thought, and others had to scrimp and save to do a couple local races each year. But as we belatedly came to understand, the bottom line is that by cheating in even a small way we had effectively stolen from each of them, and we weren’t the least proud of that.

I don’t recall having told that story on the old site, but those familiar with my crusades in the years just before and after SM became a national class may not be altogether surprised.

It's my opinion that the most important thing to Danny is his image why else would anyone post videos insesintly, grab the mic any chance he gets, spend lots of money on a graphics package on a car that runs in a class that has no crowd to watch it etc.

To many Danny was the hero and self appointed ambassador or sm. Maybe he even
was I don't really know... But if you don't think getting caught was very traumatic for him your just not realistic.

Many will only know him as a cheater the rest of his racing career... Although he did plenty of good things as well.

It cost him a few thousand in Contingency, I'm sure it cost him alot of fans, it cost him alot of respect in the small community witnessed by this thread.

There are plenty of SM racers still racing today that have been caught cheating, I'm not doing a run down on this but why would we treat Danny any different then the others that still race with us?

It's easy to get angry with Danny just as the world did with Lance Armstrong because nobody like a cheater especially one that goes out to discredit his opponents with accusations of cheating, then later is proved to be the cheat... Everyone has a right to feel angry about this and to feel angry with Danny, but why don't we feel that same anger with the many others before him?

I play tennis there are cheaters in tennis, cheaters at poker, cheaters in marriages, cheaters of taxes, cheaters of football inflation, and on and on and on... Why should racing be immune to cheaters???

Why would anyone let the rotten apples spoil the whole basket for them? There are plenty of really awesome people racing in this class as well as in life, so why judge the lot on the few?

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own oppinions on this like anything in life. I just choose to focus on the possitive side of things, like the time I have spent all day with the old dogs and dannica the porn star Davison we all had a great day and nobody was worried about someone might be cheating them out if something....

[Ron Alan]

To the OP...memories are pretty short around here and people just move on. We tend to only focus on the stuff that happens at big races...but drivers are getting DQ'd at regionals as well. Over time if we ostracized every one who had an issue we might not have a race class   As you may have noticed...those who live in glass houses tend to not throw stones...especially on this site! Danny and others felt their punishment...and not all but most will forgive them!

[MPR22]

Guess it's just me, I have some pride in the fact I don't cheat. Need to find a new hobby apparently. Car for sale ESR 2000, raced 4 times by Drago and 3xs by me. $33,000 and it's yours.
I'm gong back to the desert.

Interesting.  A man of with as much integrity as you claim to have decides to quit because you don't rally the pitchfork crowd.  

 

Good luck finding utopia where everyone you play with sees things your way.  

 

 

IMO diversity of opinion is the only true path to growth and enlightenment.  If everyone agreed with me how sad would life be. Now if i could just get my dad to agree with me just once. 

[Martinracing98]

but drivers are getting DQ'd at regionals as well

I give most disqualifications the benefit of the doubt. They can be accidental non-compliance. They can be a misunderstanding of a rule. It is hard to consider slotted suspension parts to be either of those. That is why I view it somewhat different. But I agree if it happened at a regional if few would be talking about it.

[Armando Ramirez]

Guess it's just me, I have some pride in the fact I don't cheat. Need to find a new hobby apparently. Car for sale ESR 2000, raced 4 times by Drago and 3xs by me. $33,000 and it's yours.
I'm gong back to the desert.

Hello, as a former Marine myself, I totally understand how you feel.
Having said that, do not let the situation push you away from what you seem to enjoy.

 

I have not raced or gone out to the tracks much this year and have not had the opportunity to meet you and would like to do so, perhaps at the 2018 Majors at Homestead and Sebring.
My son will driving.

Remember "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome"

 

[Jamz14]

Danny cheating isn't why your going back to desert racing. You are delusional if you think it isn't happening there too. That, or there are no rules in desert racing. You are going back because you know Danny will be looked at constantly now and he is still faster than you and most others. If there are no car rules in desert racing then you can always claim they have better gear than you and that is why they are beating you. Much easier on the ego.

The above, or are you just saying that those of us staying are of weak character for even talking to someone that made a mistake? If so maybe you can start a new race series: marathon water walking? Even that though, I've heard tales of cheaters.

[Jamz14]

Honor is found in overcoming what life and competition throw at you. Not running away from it.

You go out preach to the heathens not the saints in the pews.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

[Mike Collins]

Former Marine, Former SMAC Memeber, been in the class 15 + years. Danny is a personal friend.

I don’t condone what he did. I’ve done it to cars for similar reasons. Couldn’t get the rear camber I wanted/needed to make the car competitive. Wasn’t right when I did it. Wasn’t right when he did it. I didn’t get caught.

We race machines. With these machines we are constantly looking for a mechanical advantage. Be it through spending insane amounts of money or by occasionally taking short cuts. Racing in the gray area of the rules or pushing beyond the boundaries has a long well storied history at all levels of Motorsport. Drivers, Crew Chiefs and crew have received penalties for such deceptions.

Danny, received his penalty as have others in the class throughout the years. For years to come Danny will now be held to a higher standard and greater level of scrutiny. He resigned from the SMAC, made a public apology taking full responsibility without attempting to pass the blame.

Danny is still a friend. I’d race with him anywhere anytime. However from now until the end of days I’d be more likely to call him out or ask to look as his car either privately or via the protest process.

I can’t hold him or the sport to a standard I can’t reach. I’m not the judge. We do this for $5 plastic trophies and occasionally a few dollars but never more than we spent for the chance to win.

Just my 2 cents.

[MPR22]

Is there less honor in racing a completely legal car but nudging someone in the brake zone and making the pass or slotting a control arm that gives you the same camber as the guys you are racing around? Both are illegal, depending on the organization they may carry the same penalty.

[chris haldeman]

I take great honor in bumping you in the brake zones champ :-)

[Steve Scheifler]

Is there less honor in racing a completely legal car but nudging someone in the brake zone and making the pass or slotting a control arm that gives you the same camber as the guys you are racing around? Both are illegal, depending on the organization they may carry the same penalty.

First, I think you presume too much regarding motivation.
Second, if you pulled that move every race weekend from the start of the season, well, let’s just say you would not make it to the end of the season and the penalty could be a good bit more severe.