73 replies to this topic

[Tom Sager]

Agree, if you not going to impose a penalty for a clear rule violation then it will continue. I am not sure why someone would not get a penalty when it happens at the big show. Maybe the SMAC  should address this issue, if cleaning up the class is a priority.

Years ago suspensions for first infractions were more common and I recall some cheats back then which were far more egregious than what we see today like "stock" turbo cars making 30 more HP than factory.  The points system that is in place today was adopted within the last 8 years or so and is a more lenient approach IMO. 

[Bench Racer]

ok, the past is the past. Moving on.

 

Bench thinks a DQ is a penalty, does everyone agree??  

 

I feel a DQ is you or you're car are not to spec/to the rules, so you shouldn't be on track/achieved a advantage, in the 1st place.

 

I feel a penalty should be a disadvantage or handicap and discouragement to not repeat the action.

 

And blatant DQ's should have a penalty.

 

J~

Johnny D., have you ever been DQ'ed from a podium position in a race? Naw, I didn't think so otherwise you wouldn't be talking so silly. Imagine, you won the Runoffs, had a slotted control arm, were DQ'ed, penalty or no penalty?  Why start some $hit with my name attached, WE ALL agree to abide to the SCCA GCR rules and the GCR rules specify being DQ'ed is a penalty. If you don't care to abide by the GCR rules, write a letter for change.  Do you remember a few years ago a suggestion was made to have car cheating rules similar to SRF and many got their patties all wadded up. I totally understand different class different, Enterprise prep, adjust penalty thought process and implement. 

[High Chair]

Just to put my two cents in...What Danny did was wrong and everyone including Danny knows it but we cannot keep beating on him for it. He paid a high price for what he did and that price was probably higher than most others would've paid because it was Danny. It is very unlikely that Danny's car will be found non-compliant anytime in the near future so it is time to move on.

[Danica Davison]

Just to put my two cents in...What Danny did was wrong and everyone including Danny knows it but we cannot keep beating on him for it. He paid a high price for what he did and that price was probably higher than most others would've paid because it was Danny. It is very unlikely that Danny's car will be found non-compliant anytime in the near future so it is time to move on.

 

+1 on this.

 

I talked to Kevin about this at the track after I saw he posted something on here and also went up to Danny. He seemed mostly upset about people just giving him a pass on it, but I think it comes to a point in time where you beat up the subject enough, and you just have to let it go. I don't think anyone agreed with what he did, some just wont say anything.  Even for myself and others who took it a little more personal for other reasons, I have gotten over it. 

 

I think he got his fair share of a public beat down, which was deserved, and I think that did just as much damage as a suspension would imo.  It was pretty brutal and most people in this community would not have received that heavy of a punishment from his peers.  Especially, a guy about Danny who cares about his reputation more than most others, losing the respect of his peers is more of a hit to him than a suspension would be.  Not to mention, he had some pretty bad karma come his way after it:  Cutting a tire in the STL race on the start the next day and then destroying his car at NASA and wound up in the hospital ... I would say karma came around on him.  Even though that happened, I am not excusing him for what he did and I definitely don't think is apology/explanation was enough ... but it is time to move on and stop caring about it.  I am SURE he learned his lesson. 

 

I hope Danny does come back.  And when he does, I look forward to kicking his ass with him in a legal car

 

Kevin, don't let one guy turn you away from the class. That is just being silly. Nobody here supports his decision to cheat ... so don't dwell on it and move on like the rest of us. 

[Jamz14]

I am the first to admit that guys like Danny, Todd B. John D. Jim D, P money, and the rest of the guys who devote hours and hours to their craft will beat me with expected regularity.  They train, they study, and they develop their craft.  I show up 6 weekends a year to have fun.  I take it seriously and I compete on the track, but I don't have a goal of even a regional championship and nor do I choose to devote the time that would entail.  No Jamz, I am not disappointed because I know I will likely never beat Todd Buras in a fair race, I am disappointed because some drivers have no respect for their fellow competitors and are willing to cheat, plain and simple.  I have never been beaten in a SM race because someone had better equipment, I have been beaten by drivers who have more skill and worked harder to have it.  

Good, then put aside this silliness and move on

[Craig Berry]

I am getting into this one late, and am too busy to read everyone's thoughts. I do agree with High Chair, Danny has paid the penalty and we need to move on. There are a few guys, Danny being one of them, who have helped improve the class we enjoy so much. He made a mistake, we all do.

[High Chair]

I am getting into this one late, and am too busy to read everyone's thoughts. I do agree with High Chair, Danny has paid the penalty and we need to move on. There are a few guys, Danny being one of them, who have helped improve the class we enjoy so much. He made a mistake, we all do.

That is true.. He has helped our class far more than he hurt it at indy. I saw Danny this weekend but didn't talk to him however I will the next time I get a chance. 

[gerglmuff2]

To many Danny was the hero and self appointed ambassador or sm. Maybe he even
was I don't really know... But if you don't think getting caught was very traumatic for him your just not realistic.

Many will only know him as a cheater the rest of his racing career... Although he did plenty of good things as well.

It cost him a few thousand in Contingency, I'm sure it cost him alot of fans, it cost him alot of respect in the small community witnessed by this thread.

There are plenty of SM racers still racing today that have been caught cheating, I'm not doing a run down on this but why would we treat Danny any different then the others that still race with us?
 

as a guy who just started racing, it was some of danny's videos that got me initially hooked on the notion of spec miata. you google spec miata, and this place doesn't come up ... danny's videos do. he was the first name i learned in amateur racing. 

as a "fan" of danny's then for some time (basically on the merit of his videos being easily googable), it was disappointing to see what happened. 

 

Honor is found in overcoming what life and competition throw at you. Not running away from it.

You go out preach to the heathens not the saints in the pews.

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

 

but i kinda agree with this .... 

leaving cause someone else cheats and its exposed is just another form of self promotion. provided legal cars and drivers are winning or putting up a fight, there is no reason to discount ALL competition on the basis of one caught cheat. 

it strikes me as overly sanctimonious. 

we are here to race, not getting into a moral pissing contest. i don't like cheating, but to quit because someone else cheats is pretty silly IMO. 

[FTodaro]

I agree its time to move on, but my post above was not directly related to Danny. I have moved on regarding that, and have had little to say about it.

 

I do think however, that we should take the time to examine the rules about what the penalty should be for a blatant cheat. So maybe we start a separate thread.

 

I agree 100% its about intent... someone who buys a car with cheated up parts should be punished differently than the person who built and raced that car and knew what was on the car.

 

We have gone through all kinds of discussion and paying for more tech and spending hrs in impound after races tearing down cars. I think if we precieved we still have  a problem we should revisit the rules on cheat penalties.

 

For example if a car builder or support shop knows that something violates the rules and that it is a suspension, I would bet my bottom dollar they will get the customer to sign off on it as they would never want that responsibility. 

 

Obvious cheats get some type of suspension. That is just me. We took the time to propose a rule change regarding the cheat, Lets look a little further.

[LarryKing]

To the OP, how about saying what you think to the man's face instead of posting it on a forum.

[Danica Davison]

To the OP, how about saying what you think to the man's face instead of posting it on a forum.

 

Lol, he did. At the Chateau bar, right in front of everyone, including Kim

[davew]

It amazes me of the hypocracy of the original poster. He was able to justify spending $33,000+ with a car builder who had been found non-compliant at the Runoffs, yet he wants to have Danny drawn and quartered. Sounds way too much like our current political climate. If you are in my tribe, anything goes. If you are not, than anything you do is wrong.

 

My intent is not to throw anyone under the bus, but to lift the bus and allow everyone to forgive and move on.

 

Throwing no stones, as I have been in a glass house.

 

Remember Racing is Supposed to be FUN

[jpsomner]

I need a little help gents. I spent the first half of my life as a Marine, where your word and honor were almost as important as your devotion to your craft. Then I got into desert racing which is a tight nit family, and if you where a cheater or if you drove past someone in distress you never showed your face again. But here I am at Sebring and DS walks into the hotel like he had never cheated before in his life. Why do we have rules. Why do we have a class. Why not just have the SCCA GP, bring whatever you want, fastest guy wins.

 

Question: Have you confronted the man personally with your grievance? It seems that when "DS walked in the the hotel like he had never cheated before in his life" would have been the appropriate time to do so. 

[Jim Drago]

It amazes me of the hypocracy of the original poster. He was able to justify spending $33,000+ with a car builder who had been found non-compliant at the Runoffs, yet he wants to have Danny drawn and quartered. Sounds way too much like our current political climate. If you are in my tribe, anything goes. If you are not, than anything you do is wrong.

My intent is not to throw anyone under the bus, but to lift the bus and allow everyone to forgive and move on.

Throwing no stones, as I have been in a glass house.

Remember Racing is Supposed to be FUN

Please don’t forget or try to claim that had you been at the same Runoffs with anyone fast enough to be teched, you would have been in the same situation.
We just happen to be in teched more often.

[Danica Davison]

Question: Have you confronted the man personally with your grievance? It seems that when "DS walked in the the hotel like he had never cheated before in his life" would have been the appropriate time to do so.

 

Read my last post. Yes, he did bring it up to his face in front of many others.

[High Chair]

Please don’t forget that had you been at the same Runoffs with anyone fast enough to be teched, you would have been in the same situation.
We just happen to be in tech more often

And then that happened.

[jpsomner]

Read my last post. Yes, he did bring it up to his face in front of many others.

 

Yep, my bad. Asked and answered. Apparently, OP wasn't satisfied with the response he got at the Chateau so maybe he can find solace here? To me, the more serious issue is to think that quitting SM altogether somehow makes it better. There ain't no "quit" in Semper Fidelis, is there? I think it's time to wash the sand out the panties and get back out on track... 

[davew]

Please don’t forget or try to claim that had you been at the same Runoffs with anyone fast enough to be teched, you would have been in the same situation.
We just happen to be in teched more often.

 

Agreed, no malicious intent on my end.

 

My purpose was not to point fingers, only to point out that we all need to forgive and move on. Non of us are perfect and we all deserve a second chance.

[Jim Drago]

Agreed, no malicious intent on my end.

 

My purpose was not to point fingers, only to point out that we all need to forgive and move on. Non of us are perfect and we all deserve a second chance.

agreed and fair enough..  first day back after being gone ten days one of the first ones I read

[RacerJason99]

While I don't believe cheating is near as bad as others do.. What you posted above is all that will stop people.  If you know getting caught for whatever is deemed "cheating"  comes with a mandatory 6 month or 1 year penalty.  People would think twice. In this case where there was no mistake and clear intent a 6-12  month vacation would be a deterrent IMO. The issue is where to draw that line, There are non compliance issues that I believe are non intentional, but who knows and you cant police intent on most of these infractions. With that being said, I would still favor a 12 suspension for any of the more serious infractions 

 

It is interesting that refusing a teardown comes with a much harsher penalty than actually being found non-compliant.

 

Event disqualification, 6 month
suspension of competition privileges,
$250 fine, and 6 penalty points