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#1
DrDomm

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Ok, with the following IT rule...

 

"Power steering may be disabled or removed in whole or in part. Hydraulic steering assist pumps, valves, reservoirs, hoses, and heat exchangers, and electric steering assist motors, sensors, and controllers may be removed. Hydraulic hoses may be looped and a reservoir may be added to maintain a supply of fluid for depowered racks. Electric systems may be disconnected. Openings to the mechanical steering system created by this allowance may be plugged or filled. If power steering is present, it must be the system fitted as stock for the vehicle without modification except where expressly permitted otherwise by these rules."

 

We can now run our SMs in Improved Touring, without fear of being illegal, correct?  I'm sure this has been addressed in one of the GCR update threads, but I missed it and it doesn't readily pop up in a search.


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#2
davew

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The SM allowed head work is still not legal in IT. Updated diffs (1.8 in a 1.6 car) is not legal. Updating under car bracing not legal.

 

BUT, the ps issue is the biggest issue. The others are weinie items.


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#3
Danica Davison

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The SM allowed head work is still not legal in IT. Updated diffs (1.8 in a 1.6 car) is not legal. Updating under car bracing not legal.
 
BUT, the ps issue is the biggest issue. The others are weinie items.

 

Yeah, I believe another issue is the trans tunnel notch and the floor drop if you have that done in your SM.  But, both weenie items as well.


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#4
callumhay

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SM-ITS as their own group? At least has a nice ring to it.

#5
DrDomm

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The SM allowed head work is still not legal in IT. Updated diffs (1.8 in a 1.6 car) is not legal. Updating under car bracing not legal.

 

BUT, the ps issue is the biggest issue. The others are weinie items.

 

Ok, wow...the plunge cut thing?  

 

What I posted above about the Power Steering seems to make de-powering the rack (like your method) legal, doesn't it?

 

I have a '00...there is no updated under car bracing...it's stock.

 

Yeah, I believe another issue is the trans tunnel notch and the floor drop if you have that done in your SM.  But, both weenie items as well.

 

I have no tunnel notch or floor drop.

 

I'm just considering sneaking in a couple more sessions (for practice), and the IT race group fits in nice.  I'll prolly leave the restrictor plate on.


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#6
Danica Davison

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I'm just considering sneaking in a couple more sessions (for practice), and the IT race group fits in nice.  I'll prolly leave the restrictor plate on.

 

You will be fine. Most of us down here run STL (The class the GCR says we should run) because some IT guys weren't happy with us ruining their races with our packs of cars.  But yes, two notes about the restrictor plate:

 

1.) You are allowed to run STL in SM trim. Meaning, if you remove the restrictor plate, you have to add on like 200 pounds to the car to be legal. So your car would weigh the same as Nick Leverone's STL purpose built car, yet only make 13 more hp.

2.) You wont win in STL unless nobody with a fast car shows up, so like you said, use it for practice.  That being said, pulling the plate will not help you at all, and will actually hurt you when you move back to SM.  When you pull the plate, all of your brake points, shift points, and muscle memory changes.  For most people, this will cause you to go back to SM and brake/shift where you were without the plate ... which will make you slower.

 

Just my thoughts :)


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#7
OrangeCrush86

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In my region and STL and SM are already combined, so our only option is ITA if we want more track time.


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#8
Steve Scheifler

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The de-powered rack thing was an issue here long ago but a rule was made explicitly to include NAs in ITA so long as they run full SM trim including weight and restrictor. A few of the ITA guys whined incessantly and made me want to build a real ITA Miata to shame them into silence, but they were already at least 2 seconds off the pace so it seemed pointless.
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#9
Jim Creighton

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So, why not enter as a production car? If you are just looking for track time, that should solve your problem. Might even win a trophy. Never going to beat a well prepared FP or EP car but then again, they don't always finish. Only non SM thing required I can think of is the on board fire system and you might be able to get around that by saying you are a IT car running prod in IT trim.



#10
Danica Davison

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So, why not enter as a production car? If you are just looking for track time, that should solve your problem. Might even win a trophy. Never going to beat a well prepared FP or EP car but then again, they don't always finish. Only non SM thing required I can think of is the on board fire system and you might be able to get around that by saying you are a IT car running prod in IT trim.

 

Man, I tell you what, one thing I do not like about racing in STL is racing with the Prod cars. The ones at the national level are fine ... but at the regional level ... it can be really scary.  This class outside national competition has become the geriatric class for the most part and they have the tiniest mirrors out of all the classes.  Most don't pay attention to what's around them or even use their tiny mirrors to see if anyone is coming.  They have very fast and light cars and they drive away from you on every straight ... and you make up 5 seconds in every corner. I really don't like racing in that group at all actually and thinking about going back to ITS for my double dipping despite being "illegal".  


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#11
Chris Lefferdink

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Man, I tell you what, one thing I do not like about racing in STL is racing with the Prod cars. The ones at the national level are fine ... but at the regional level ... it can be really scary.  This class outside national competition has become the geriatric class for the most part and they have the tiniest mirrors out of all the classes.  Most don't pay attention to what's around them or even use their tiny mirrors to see if anyone is coming.  They have very fast and light cars and they drive away from you on every straight ... and you make up 5 seconds in every corner. I really don't like racing in that group at all actually and thinking about going back to ITS for my double dipping despite being "illegal".  

Agreed.  The last double dip with STL/SRF at Sebring was ridiculous. 


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#12
davew

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What I did years ago with our local club, Midwestern Council, was to allow a 100% SM to run in ITA. Plate, weight, everything.must be SM legal.

 

STL has 3 sets of rules, True STL, Sm or IT. You have to chose which rules you are running, with no "mix and match" allowed.If you choose SM rules, you run a plate and everything else except the spec tire.

 

If you talk with the local officials, they will usually rearrainge the grouping to allow double dipping. After all it is to their benefit if they get more entry fees.

 

Dave


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#13
Jim Creighton

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Man, I tell you what, one thing I do not like about racing in STL is racing with the Prod cars. The ones at the national level are fine ... but at the regional level ... it can be really scary.  This class outside national competition has become the geriatric class for the most part and they have the tiniest mirrors out of all the classes.  Most don't pay attention to what's around them or even use their tiny mirrors to see if anyone is coming.  They have very fast and light cars and they drive away from you on every straight ... and you make up 5 seconds in every corner. I really don't like racing in that group at all actually and thinking about going back to ITS for my double dipping despite being "illegal".  

Hey, that way you can practice passing in the corners. I figured there were not as many prod cars running up where he is vs the number you have in Florida. Most of them in NY have either rusted away or moved to Florida. <_<  Agree about prod drivers not watching mirrors. I got real good at looking in those tiny mirrors to see if I could see if their eyes were glued straight ahead or not. I even put a air horn on my National car when I ran some regionals for practice. That actually was for the old SSC cars that used to drive around in the middle of the track . It worked and got some great waives from the workers.


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#14
Danica Davison

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Hey, that way you can practice passing in the corners. I figured there were not as many prod cars running up where he is vs the number you have in Florida. Most of them in NY have either rusted away or moved to Florida. <_<  Agree about prod drivers not watching mirrors. I got real good at looking in those tiny mirrors to see if I could see if their eyes were glued straight ahead or not.

 

Haha I cringe every time I come up on one quickly. I think I need to write a letter to the CRB requesting that ALL Production classes need to install a 20 inch+ rear view mirror and reinstall side mirrors.  I know they will say "Thank you for your input. We advise no action at this time."  - but, at least all the prod guys will read it and get mad (if they even know how to find it online that is :D )


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#15
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Ever run the ECR Enduros? You have all manner of dilapidated IT cars, SRFs, and the occasional T-class Vette, Camaro, Stang to deal with - for an hour and a half. Great reflex building exercise.

PS: is there a regional prod car that doesn't leak fluids.
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#16
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PS: is there a regional prod car that doesn't leak fluids.

SURE, non British cars. :rotfl:


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#17
Danica Davison

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Ever run the ECR Enduros? You have all manner of dilapidated IT cars, SRFs, and the occasional T-class Vette, Camaro, Stang to deal with - for an hour and a half. Great reflex building exercise.

PS: is there a regional prod car that doesn't leak fluids.

 

Of course I have, many times. But, I will say that CHUMPCAR drivers in their very first session on track, ever, are more predictable than a lot of the regional older prod car drivers. That's pretty sad lol


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PC, it's really quite simple for you to not have these issues with prod car drivers, don't double dip in their class. I get real sick of reading the prod car SM BS on their site. Now, your doing the same BS on SM site towards the prod drivers.


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#19
Danica Davison

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PC, it's really quite simple for you to not have these issues with prod car drivers, don't double dip in their class. I get real sick of reading the prod car SM BS on their site. Now, your doing the same BS on SM site towards the prod drivers.


DD, it's really quite simple for you to not have these issues with posts that are BS, don't take it so seriously.  :P


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#20
Danica Davison

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PC, it's really quite simple for you to not have these issues with prod car drivers, don't double dip in their class. I get real sick of reading the prod car SM BS on their site. Now, your doing the same BS on SM site towards the prod drivers.

 

It is strange though ... I have only seen you get this sensitive when talking about parity. I found a new tick ;)


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