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#21
Danica Davison

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When can we put all the SM prep shop cars in their own class?

 

Lol. Would this include the cars that Drago builds, drives for a year and then sells to some larry who runs midpack?


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#22
Jim Creighton

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The single biggest impact this will have on everyone who does make the 4.0 and has a Runoffs slot is that entry fees will rise. The club members who no longer will have a Runoffs place will go somewhere else to race or quit. The rest of you will have to make up the lost $$ difference for all races including the Runoffs. Delete 25% of the cars and increase the entry fees and membership/license fee by 25%. Simple math. If that's ok, go for it.

 

What keeps getting over looked by the powers that be is that SCCA in a Club and as such, we have certain obligations to those who pay their dues and have done so for many years. Once we fail to meet those obligations, the member will go away never to return. Once that happens, the burden of expenses get redistributed to those that are left. Keep cutting the pie larger raises the cost per piece. What happens when they double or triple?

 

Right now, the SM piece is protected but maybe not so when the costs for SCCA races gets so high that more and more SM guys go elsewhere. Soon, nobody will be able to afford the SCCA pie.



#23
OrangeCrush86

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Lol. Would this include the cars that Drago builds, drives for a year and then sells to some larry who runs midpack?

 

I'm looking to separate the arrive and drive guys that only have to focus on driving because I can't compete. :)


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#24
Ron Alan

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Jim...Totally understand your point with regard to lost revenue. But how about this for a concept...SCCA cut waste across the board?

 

For every action there is a reaction...if SCCA is smart they will anticipate this and minimize the impact. I don't want to infer that SCCA is wasteful with our dues and entry fees but my guess is there is room for improvement! This along with combining classes seems like a win-win. 

 

At our last 2 regional events we had a run group with 2 cars...2 fuucking cars and 1 broke!!  The brain trust who run our region left every session in the schedule for this 1 car...genius. Apparently moving that one car to another group and adding the extra time to the remaining groups(or simply starting or ending early or later)was not in the cards because some people would not get the memo or be confused?????? Not only this but SM had 1 session between our qual and race 1...we were told the schedule couldn't be changed with only 4 days to go...WTF?? It's this kind of thinking that will be the end of SCCA. 

 

Culling the herd is part of life...disappointing a few will allow the rest to survive.


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#25
FTodaro

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I can only speak for myself, but spending 10 days anywhere to do the runoffs is not appealing to me. getting 15min of track time per day like we had in Mid O is not appealing to me. For the Majors, when you combine a day of travel with a day a practice day and then a 3 day super tour schedule, that makes it hard to do several races.

 

Ralph, if we did not have as many classes, the runoffs could provide more track time, make it a bit more interesting, in this regard, NASA has it right.


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#26
BNaumann

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I can only speak for myself, but spending 10 days anywhere to do the runoffs is not appealing to me. getting 15min of track time per day like we had in Mid O is not appealing to me. For the Majors, when you combine a day of travel with a day a practice day and then a 3 day super tour schedule, that makes it hard to do several races.

Ralph, if we did not have as many classes, the runoffs could provide more track time, make it a bit more interesting, in this regard, NASA has it right.


Actually I liked that about Indy. Only having to drive once per day made it very laid back and enjoyable. Of course if that time was 8am I wouldn't have been as happy. And I would've been even happier if I wasn't sleeping in a cargo trailer for 8 days.

#27
Bench Racer

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Millennial thought from a Silent Generation member.

 

How about all drivers are not charged SCCA membership and also have zero cost race entry fee. After all we are providing something for all the workers and officials to do with their recreational time. :bigsquaregrin: while :rotfl:


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#28
FTodaro

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I tried to post the car counts at the majors but could not get it to format.


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#29
38bfast

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I can only speak for myself, but spending 10 days anywhere to do the runoffs is not appealing to me. getting 15min of track time per day like we had in Mid O is not appealing to me. For the Majors, when you combine a day of travel with a day a practice day and then a 3 day super tour schedule, that makes it hard to do several races.

 

Ralph, if we did not have as many classes, the runoffs could provide more track time, make it a bit more interesting, in this regard, NASA has it right.

Frank NASA can pull that off because they pack the track to its limit with combined classes. They don't have open wheel but they a allot of tin top and TT classes. 

 

So if you want a packed mix run group for the runoffs they could shorten the schedule. But saying people won't do the long schedule doesn't hold water when we had one 1000 cars at indy for a looooong week. 


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#30
Johnny D

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Pretty sure the 1000 cars was for the track.

How many you have this year or the year prior ??

 

Have you guys done a pole.

Like it shorter

Like it the way it is.

Like it longer ?  (most girls will go for this)

 

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#31
Danica Davison

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Frank NASA can pull that off because they pack the track to its limit with combined classes. They don't have open wheel but they a allot of tin top and TT classes. 
 
So if you want a packed mix run group for the runoffs they could shorten the schedule. But saying people won't do the long schedule doesn't hold water when we had one 1000 cars at indy for a looooong week.

 

Yes, but I think that was just the allure of Indianapolis.

 

2017 had 6256 total entries in Majors and 1000 entered into the Indy Runoffs

2016 had 4708 total entries in Majors and 580 entered into Ohio Runoffs

2015 had 4605 total entries in Majors and 591 entered into Daytona Runoffs

 

I am sure 2018 will be less than Ohio. Entries at Laguna were 530. I expect around the same number this year at Sonoma.


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#32
BNaumann

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At Indy you could have just shown up for Thursday and Friday and run two races! Of course qualifying Wednesday would have been safer.

Ralph said it's too long and he's never doing another Runoffs but I bet he says that every year.

#33
BNaumann

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The 2017 bump was due to the entry criteria. Larries like me weren't invited in 2016. I bet 2018 will be low due to location and 2019 will be in the 750 range.

#34
OrangeCrush86

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I think you need to be careful when looking at Runoff entries. Isn't it going to be highly affected by the changes in qualifying requirements? From what I understand 2017 would be the most accessible from a qualifying standpoint. Next would be the venue it self probably.


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#35
Johnny D

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I think you need to be careful when looking at Runoff entries. Isn't it going to be highly affected by the changes in qualifying requirements? From what I understand 2017 would be the most accessible from a qualifying standpoint. Next would be the venue it self probably.

 

"I think",  "From what I understand" ?

 

Well definitely, probably, maybe this is right. But probably not if you really knew the numbers. :)

 

J~


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#36
Steve Scheifler

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The single biggest impact this will have on everyone who does make the 4.0 and has a Runoffs slot is that entry fees will rise. The club members who no longer will have a Runoffs place will go somewhere else to race or quit. The rest of you will have to make up the lost $$ difference for all races including the Runoffs. Delete 25% of the cars and increase the entry fees and membership/license fee by 25%. Simple math. If that's ok, go for it.

What keeps getting over looked by the powers that be is that SCCA in a Club and as such, we have certain obligations to those who pay their dues and have done so for many years. Once we fail to meet those obligations, the member will go away never to return. Once that happens, the burden of expenses get redistributed to those that are left. Keep cutting the pie larger raises the cost per piece. What happens when they double or triple?

Right now, the SM piece is protected but maybe not so when the costs for SCCA races gets so high that more and more SM guys go elsewhere. Soon, nobody will be able to afford the SCCA pie.


Jim, your points would sound reasonable if not for the fact that for years the club has acknowledged they have too many classes one moment, then add more the next. This is not a new problem yet they keep making it worse. There needs to be some short-term pain before it’s too late, if it isn’t already. Total car counts may have to go down and fees go up until the right balance is struck, but given the outrageous cost of tires (to be competitive), the shrinking on-track time per weekend (especially rarely if ever getting a practice session without doing an extra day) and the lack of any real competition in all but maybe 3 classes, I see very little value these days. If paying 25% more on entry fees solved a couple of those issues it would be a bargain.
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#37
OrangeCrush86

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"I think",  "From what I understand" ?

 

Well definitely, probably, maybe this is right. But probably not if you really knew the numbers. :)

 

J~

 

I have only raced SM for one year so I have to tread lightly or I'll get labeled as a know-it-all millennial.


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#38
Jim Creighton

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Steve, sadly I agree with most everything you said. SCCA has managed to speak out of both sides of its' mouth concerning the number of classes. And when they have had a chance to consolidate, they back off at the last minute. To me, 21 has always been the number of Runoffs classes that makes the most sense. It's 7 classes a day at the Runoffs and is both the number of races and post race inspections that can be completed. Start adding to that and things get complicated.

 

But, I have no dog in the race now so it's easy to sit on the banks and watch the stream flow. Just wish the fishing was a bit better. Today, my stream is banked 37 degrees here at Bristol Motor Speedway with the big Late model show. The water really flows fast.


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#39
Danica Davison

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I have only raced SM for one year so I have to tread lightly or I'll get labeled as a know-it-all millennial.

 

 

You millennials are just the worst.


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#40
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Everyone says we need less classes, why? What does it take away by having a lot of classes. If we combine classes in run groups where is the down side. Car counts at most events aren’t overbooked. So why push away a class. I agree if a class gets pitifully low participation then it should go regional only. But when you try and combine it doesn’t work. Most cars are built to thier specific rule set and when you change the rule set a lot can’t be undone. I was on the raw end of the stick going from DSR to P1, so I have lived the nightmare. And the consolidation of S2, DSR, CSR to p1/P2 has cost the club car count and members. We have seen the same fallout when we redid all of T and SSB/C. To top that off we added Bspec that wasn’t ready in numbers to become a national class. The worst thing you can do to a competitor is take his competitive car and turn it into a also ran.

Just think how this forum would explode if the NC and ND became part of SM. It’s all sounds great and dandy until it hits your class. Hell SM still has not gotten over adding the NB to SM.

I disagree, with the exception of about 5 people the darkside has prevailed and NB is the SM.


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