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Elevating the third-generation MX-5


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#21
Jim Drago

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Ding, ding. Exactly.

So you have the choice between racing around for a couple of years with 3 to 6 other cars in your class or you choose SM and mix it up with 50-60+ others in your own run group.

Speaking of, where do you think they will place this new class in the run groups? Think they will insert it into the SM field? Try and dangle a carrot to the target audience?  :scratchchin: Sure seems like a good way to disrupt SM.

Maybe all the 1.6 guys can jump right to this car so they are competitive until the rest of the class comes in in 5-6 years. Mazda's belief is these drivers will NOT come from SM, but an entire new group of drivers. frankly I don't see that at all either. I don't think this class picks up any steam until some of the bigger names and shops switch to this car. I have yet to hear from any that lan on switching


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#22
OrangeCrush86

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Maybe all the 1.6 guys can jump right to this car so they are competitive until the rest of the class comes in in 5-6 years. Mazda's belief is these drivers will NOT come from SM, but an entire new group of drivers. frankly I don't see that at all either. I don't think this class picks up any steam until some of the bigger names and shops switch to this car. I have yet to hear from any that lan on switching

 

Good idea! Not having to compete against pro shops with deep pockets and 20 cars worth of data sounds great! :)


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#23
Johnny D

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Are they looking at Danny as an example for everyone? Run 2+ groups with SM and NC cars ?

Everyone can do that, right?

 

J~


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#24
DCP

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All of the 2006-2008 cars have motors with internals that are not as strong and will blow up. 

What are the weak spots with these motors? Building an endurance car from one now.



#25
Ron Alan

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Curious if the nay sayers were around when RX7 was strong and the Miata started showing up? I don't believe the first 2 generations of Miata's are going anywhere...there just is no better car out there for anyone who wants to give racing/track days a go! Besides the car, Mazda brand is 2nd to none when it comes to its support of the amateur/pro racing scene. I can understand why some here don't like the NC car on the surface...or maybe selfishly don't want to encourage others. For me...its different strokes for different folks. Though I may not be interested personally...zero interest in discouraging other racers or Mazda from pursuing what is a logical progression of time.

 

Maybe Mazda will come up with a really true spec class this time? 


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#26
Steve Scheifler

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Always respect your position Ron but this isn’t a political party where members are expected to drink the cool aid and support the party line. When it becomes a bad thing to respectfully voice an unpopular or negative position or promote honest debate, we may as well flip the internet master switch to Off. No trolls here, just people offering their insights and perspectives for consideration.
Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record.

#27
chris haldeman

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As for a true spec comment..... take any 10 top flight spec miatas and strap them to the dyno. Do the same thing with any 10 random sealed mx5 engines and tell me which ones are closer. I know where my 100$ bet is placed. Other than being the same chassis the class will have the same issues as spec Miata. Bottom line is you can’t spec talent wether it is driving talent,prep talent,set up talent. I had the opportunity to drive multiple different spec Miatas at the last race weekend. Na1.6 and 99. Funny thing I didn’t build either one of them. Best part turned the same LapTime in both cars down to the .01 the only people that have problems with the way spec Miata is right now are the very few on this site crying and those that promised all of us running in the mx5 cup series at the end of 2014 when the news of the global car was released that they were going to put the nc in club racing so our old wore out cars had a place to race so we could spend that money on factory built cars.
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#28
Johnny D

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It only gets better when you rip it apart and rebuild it.

 

So...

2009+

lighter

more camber

stronger front nose piece/rear bumper pieces to save $

Hardtop?

200 tires.

Tire Conting

Mazda Contig

 

J~


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#29
Jim Drago

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Curious if the nay sayers were around when RX7 was strong and the Miata started showing up? I don't believe the first 2 generations of Miata's are going anywhere...there just is no better car out there for anyone who wants to give racing/track days a go! Besides the car, Mazda brand is 2nd to none when it comes to its support of the amateur/pro racing scene. I can understand why some here don't like the NC car on the surface...or maybe selfishly don't want to encourage others. For me...its different strokes for different folks. Though I may not be interested personally...zero interest in discouraging other racers or Mazda from pursuing what is a logical progression of time.
 
Maybe Mazda will come up with a really true spec class this time?

 

Mazda didn't come up with the Spec Miata platform.." We" collectively did.. Started from Shannon,DDG and Daniels.. Then taken from there by MANY volunteers including myself to get it where it is now.. Where is it now? The best and closest form of amateur racing PERIOD. Closer than SRF or Mx5 global when you compare the top 10-15 cars in each class.  It will be closer than the new class as well, there rules will need tweaking just as ours did, regardless of how well they think they are written.


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#30
Johnny D

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I was assuming they were building (doing something) on Todd's and WW momentum, but of course hats off to Daniels, etc...

 

J~


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#31
Johnny D

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Timing and combo is everything.

 

J~

 


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#32
Ron Alan

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Hmmm...I guess I cant assume people will get my point with just a little info!

Mazda didn't come up with the Spec Miata platform.." We" collectively did.. Started from Shannon,DDG and Daniels.. Then taken from there by MANY volunteers including myself to get it where it is now.. Where is it now? The best and closest form of amateur racing PERIOD. Closer than SRF or Mx5 global when you compare the top 10-15 cars in each class.  It will be closer than the new class as well, there rules will need tweaking just as ours did, regardless of how well they think they are written.

Thanks for clarifying the history of SM...only been here 8 years...and maybe Mazda wasnt involved early on...but am I wrong in saying they are now? Agree with you 100% on your comparison with SRF and MX-5. But take our top 20 drivers and flip cars with the top 20 drivers in those other series...SM would look different! And so would those series! That's a compliment to SM BTW!

 

Steve...if it came across as me telling everyone to shut their pie hole...my apologies. No agenda here other than I appreciate the effort Mazda seems to put forward in racing support. With that in mind, I for one wont be telling them if I feel they are being dumb asses or will I be telling other drivers they are dumb asses to get involved! IMO...that's A-political? Maybe telling you what I(singular/me personally)plan to do is wrong? BTW...I(singular/me personally)will be standing for the Flag/National Anthem this weekend(Go NE!) :)

 

My spec class comment was a little out of line without detail...my bad. For years people here have complained SM isn't a true spec class...and by definition it isn't. But I for one have always argued it is the best and as close as it can get just as Jim and Chris have stated...we are all in agreement!

With regard to the NC, I have heard rumors through the grapevine(no idea what is fact or fiction)of single source motors and ECU's to start. Basically, with hindsight being 20/20, many things that have been learned over the years with SM can be applied from the start. There is no reason if it takes off to think that an NC spec class of cars wont be close...taking drivers and set up out of the equation! For sure things will be learned but hopefully it wont be being tweaked for 10 plus years.

 

Do I think the NC will replace the popularity of SM anytime soon...not a chance in hell!! Will it appeal to some...yep :wave2:  


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#33
Bench Racer

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Now a little history on the Spec7 platform. The class was started by SCCA San Diego Region members Mark Holland and Dave Turner. Goal, avoid the increasing cost and constant changes involved with Improved Touring classes. One  issue which came into play with the Spec7 class was different Regions bastardized the class rules.   


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#34
38bfast

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I have always struggled with what makes a class popular. Some new classes that show incredible promise just don't go anywhere. We see it time and time again. I have tried very hard to find out that magic key to a successful class. Why did SM take off. It obviously has its short comings and is not "perfect". So what makes it such a home run? I have tried to look at rule sets and have not found the magic there. So my latest hypnotists is the culture of the class, The people. In SM we have such diverse background of people but yet all are treated equal. Everyone helps everyone. Even the shops help each other. If you have a problem at the track there is defiantly is no shortage of people to help. People share data, Video. Off track the SM comuity is tight. We drink beer together, go to dinner together, BS at the fire at night. Have social events even when we are not at the track together. I don't see this type of camaraderie anywhere else in the paddock anywhere near what SM has. People who want to choose a class see this and say "those guys are having fun". So to me SM is more than just a class its a culture. and I believe its our biggest asset. 

 

When I raced DSR/P1 there was none of that in the class at all. I tried to be friendly with my competitors but if I went over to their paddock spot it was like how dare I come over to spy on their equipment. They would literally cover their car if they seen me coming. The thought of sharing data was taboo. The group was no fun at all off track. I always found myself hanging with the SM guys. Even today at the after hours bench racing gatherings we attract other classes because we are where the fun is. 


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#35
Johnny D

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Very true. ^^

I beleive its a goldilocks special imo.

Spec but not where your hands are tide.

The car is sporty enough for a driver to learn, develope, champion.

Costs and Mazda lower and better than most to attract beginners to pro.

 

J~


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We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Beta-Tester - Assisted us with beta testing the website. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Novel Approach - When a paragraph simply won't do... Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#36
Bench Racer

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Ralph, don't disagree with anything you said. Within the sharing and camaraderie is there some personal self unspoken satisfaction in, you've got everything I've got, now use your racecraft and beat me on track. 


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#37
Camaro67racer

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What are the weak spots with these motors? Building an endurance car from one now.

 

Luckily, I had a 2010 with the stronger motor and didn't experience a failure so I can't speak to exactly what goes wrong. But I know of others that had a 2006 and had an engine let go. Also, if you look on the used market, typically the only NCs you see with a motor failure are the pre-2009. 

 

I can say that the 2009+ motors got a new oil cooler, a new forged steel crank and connecting rods, new pistons with stronger wrist pins, and stronger valve springs (allowed redline to go up 500 rpm). 


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#38
Tim Wright

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Now a little history on the Spec7 platform. The class was started by SCCA San Diego Region members Mark Holland and Dave Turner. Goal, avoid the increasing cost and constant changes involved with Improved Touring classes. One  issue which came into play with the Spec7 class was different Regions bastardized the class rules.   

Bench, I remember those days! Ralph wonders why the class is popular? Well I moved from Pro7 to SM because it was too much trouble to change brake rotors and pads between every session, no joke. Wheel bearings every weekend, and then there was the dreaded "snap oversteer" from the binding watts link, or what ever. Every SM race weekend I remember how glad I am not getting burned changing burning hot brakes!



#39
screaming monkey

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Does anyone have any experience using the 5 speed in the NC instead of the 6 speed? If so, better? Worse? Basically the same? I've never used 6th in my NC, but I've never been to a roval either. Any help is appreciated.


Richard Scott Mooney
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#40
Jim Drago

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Does anyone have any experience using the 5 speed in the NC instead of the 6 speed? If so, better? Worse? Basically the same? I've never used 6th in my NC, but I've never been to a roval either. Any help is appreciated.

the 5 speed is basically the same box as 99 up miata with different bell housing and tail housing. They were having issues in MX5 cup with them when they started. I ran the 09 up 6 speed version in my T4 car, with all the upgrades. It was VERY much better than 99-05 6 speed and I ran it for a season, Daniels for a season and not sure if Tim Auger is still on originally trans or not. But it was no issue and shifted really well. The 06-08 6 speeds do not have any of the upgrades unless bought new and are known problems.


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