24 replies to this topic

[TylerQuance]

You bet!! I'm excited to go racing again. We took a break from wrenching after everything was canceled but I got the engine in mine and fired it up yesterday.

[Jim Drago]

If I were your builder I would charge $85k for your next build. This figure increases $5k every time you post something about pocketing money from selling the world class build you just got.

I noticed that as well   

[Jim Drago]

Hey Tyler,

 

I hope not!!!  

 

Anyway, anyone can read this thread and figure out who said what and try to interpret motives.  My motive is simple (and it’s not to sell my car or brag about a “world class build”).  When we publicly establish a high number as normative for the class, we pay a price for class growth.  I think this hurts both class advocates like you and me and also builders (cost/volume).

 

And by the way, I look forward to racing with you.  Or behind you as the case may be

 

cnj 

 

I did not say what your other post claims.. simply that in conversations with your builder etc. It is my belief, if you were to sell your car at 55k and build another one with the same builder with ALL options and upgrades on Mazda Spreadsheet and a data system more than an aim solo.( I don't know what you had built the first time) you would not turn a profit. Pretty silly hypothetical, but that's what you started and I disagree with.  So,  I will leave it at that.  We can agree to disagree. 

 

,My "motives"  are nothing but answering a question posted? see it above, it was a direct question posed to me. Kind of resent the implication to be honest with you.  I gave realistic figures as to what having the cars built by a prep shop would be.  It is your right to agree or disagree but really doesn't change the figures IMO. Even using your own numbers posted of a home built car and adding reasonable shop labor rate you get to my figures quickly.  So I really don't even see your point? You are a smart guy and can do the math and realize that shops need to turn a profit as well. The class will also not grow or survive if the prep shops taking care of the cars and building them are making little to no money.  

 

You say how putting a big number out hurts growth and the class ... What does the "you can build a spec miata for 10-15000" do for SM?  IMO , it brings a lot of people in who are very quickly discouraged, even disgusted and leave the class feeling they were lied or to or misled. I think the 30k spec Mx5 is a VERY similar statement to all but a VERY select few like myself, Tyler and a few others with means.  You can do it if you do the minimum , add no labor and only add the required parts. Nothing replaced or rebuilt on 100k donors.  Not exactly a car most of us would want to race, but will get you on the track and compliant. 

 

That was my point and only point. I'm not trying to set a price point and all the other nonsense. I am middle of the road with regards to cost of pro built Spec Miatas. My hopes are to position myself in a similar position in Spec MX5, if the numbers don't make sense, we simply wont participate.

[Cnj]

Ok Jim.  We’re buddies (I think?) and I’m not attacking you.

 

So let me clear up a few things.

 

1. I agree with you on the $55K number - no profit to be made by me.  But what my post said was that I’d take $65K and make a profit.  I never mentioned $55K.  So I’m not sure what we are debating.

 

2.  Yes, if you use the numbers I listed in my initial post and add to that the labor numbers you subsequently noted (assuming shop rate of $100/hr), the number ranges from $50K to $58K.  I don’t have a quibble with that, nor did my posts suggest otherwise. 

 

3. The $10-15K SM was always a foolish unicorn and I’ve gone on record on this site several times debunking those numbers for the same reason you list above.  As for a $30K Spec MX5, I agree and I never used that (or any) number for a built car in my post.  Not sure why we are apparently arguing about something I never said.

 

4.  On this site I’ve seen SM numbers noted/predicted as costing up to $55K or more.  I thought those were on the other extreme and thought they were equally negative as low $15K claimed build numbers for perceptions of our SM class, which is the point of my post yesterday.  We can of course agree to disagree on this issue.

 

5.  As to profit, of course I think you and others should make a profit.  I’ve bought quite a bit from you over the years and not once have I done a counteroffer to lower the price. Nor have I done that to others and I’ve periodically written a check for more than the quoted price when I thought the number was too low for healthy profitability.  So maybe some people are in the “no profit camp”, but I’m not one of them.  Ultimately the market price is set by a willing buyer (who thinks they are getting value for money) and the seller (who knows their cost and the margins needed to be in the game).  All I suggested in my initial post that you reacted strongly to, was that I thought the market was less than $65K for a car like mine.  So seriously, why are we arguing? 
 

I didn’t jump into the thread to fight with anyone, but simply to answer someone’s question by bringing my perspective on a class I’m investing in.  I don’t post often and certainly am regretting posting anything.  I’ll go back to silence.  

 

I just wanna go racing and I’m tired of being stuck in the house.  

 

cnj 

[TylerQuance]

Everybody love everybody