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Intake manifolds and recent disqualification overturn

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#1
Jim Drago

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As many of you have seen, the recent DQ at COTA was overturned.  See the link below. 

 

 

 https://www.scca.com...tion-overturned

 

 

I just wanted to put up a video I took last week , it shows exactly what was Dq'ed.  It is the bevel I point to in the video, most have some amount of this bevel, some very little, some more than others, some not at all.   See link below. 

 

https://www.youtube....eature=youtu.be

 

More concerning for me is example #3 in the video, We OFTEN see manifolds that for no good reason are touched in the most random spots from Mazda. I can only imagine someone is cleaning cast flashing before assembly? I have seen this in many 99 and VVt manifolds, likely in about 1 out of 5-6 or so? I have sent pictures to tech several times as at some point, someone is going to get popped for something they did not do and no one will believe them :( Its coming. No idea what tech should do here as there is no way to tell if "the competitor" did it or "Mazda"  But know it is coming for someone, at some point

 

Jim


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#2
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As the person(s) that were used as the comparison for the random inspection during that race I can say that the intakes of Vinnie and I's were a lot less presentable (i.e. smooth and clean) as they were (in my case 170k mile un cracked), but if there are variances from the factory then allowances should be given during inspection. It's a negligible  gain with the restrictor either way? However, I was told this is standard practice to modify by that builder (second hand), but if the factory delivers it that way then how is that any different than any other tolerance exploited?


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#3
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The swirl within the runner was likely de-flashed as Jim stated by Mazda at the parting line because the other option would be to scrap the manifold.  I got busted by WKA for similar with a Yamaha 100cc engine. Yamaha stood up to the challenge and stated to the WKA that they de-flash over scraping the part.  


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#4
Alberto

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So, if you were to clean the nasty, caked on oil gunk inside your intake manifold using a wire wheel, would that leave marks like in the video?


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#5
Jim Drago

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So, if you were to clean the nasty, caked on oil gunk inside your intake manifold using a wire wheel, would that leave marks like in the video?

It could which is why you should never use a wire wheel for that job


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#6
Jim Drago

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ron alan post below
 
 
 
I'm glad for Danny that this in fact appears to be an honest mistake by the SM compliance team...but how did an "appeal" happen in a process that can not be appealed?? If this was a matter of "who knows who" and an obvious deviation from what has been in place for years...then SCCA better explain why the process was skirted around??? AND...moving forward they need to explain what will happen next time or quietly change the f--king process to reflect what they just did....
 
Jim...you can move this to the other thread you started!

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#7
Jim Drago

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Spoken like a true Nasa guy :)

 

it was all spelled out.. not a case of who you know, etc. it was explained fairly well in Fastrack. You are permitted to appeal your own decision within the SCCA, the system was NOT skirted.  The official found new evidence and realized a mistake was made and he corrected his mistake.  That's the way the system is supposed to work.  It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.  The right decision in the end and there were no black helicopters flying, Isn't that what we want? The correct decision to come down?

 

Jim


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#8
Ron Alan

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Ron Alan, on 24 Mar 2020 - 08:50 AM, said:snapback.png

Moving forward...is there now a written process to appeal the SM Compliance teams decisions? Several years ago according to John Bauer(when he still ran the show) all decisions were final...NO appeal process...because there were exhaustive phone calls to appeal some how then...all stone walled!

There is not, personally I don't think there should be either. Even in light of this mistake. 

Jim 

 
 

 

Spoken like a true Nasa guy :)

 

it was all spelled out.. not a case of who you know, etc. it was explained fairly well in Fastrack. You are permitted to appeal your own decision within the SCCA, the system was NOT skirted.  The official found new evidence and realized a mistake was made and he corrected his mistake.  That's the way the system is supposed to work.  It doesn't happen often, but it does happen.  The right decision in the end and there were no black helicopters flying, Isn't that what we want? The correct decision to come down?

 

Jim

I'm confused...you can appeal a SM compliance team decision or you cant? 

 

I took what what John Bauer(and Rick Harris)said several years back as gospel(no appeal)...if they were in fact wrong...so be it. 

 

And yes, I'm glad about the correct decision...wasn't that clearly stated?


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#9
Jim Drago

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Ron Alan, on 24 Mar 2020 - 08:50 AM, said:snapback.png

There is not, personally I don't think there should be either. Even in light of this mistake. 

Jim 

 
 

 

I'm confused...you can appeal a SM compliance team decision or you cant? 

 

I took what what John Bauer(and Rick Harris)said several years back as gospel(no appeal)...if they were in fact wrong...so be it. 

 

And yes, I'm glad about the correct decision...wasn't that clearly stated?

 

You can not appeal the CCC decision. 

 

The stewards can appeal their own decisions when new information becomes available. 

 

In this case, as all non compliant parts are not returned. It was likely brought back to Topeka, looked at and discussed.  It seems like they felt there was enough reason to look for other samples.  Once more samples were at their disposal it became clear they needed to correct their decison and update their samples. 

 

I went through this a little bit at 2017 runoffs with Preston. their sample valves were circa 2007 and our car had new valves in it. The other cars in tech had resurfaced originals. The font of the 4W was different on our valves. Luckily for us , Jim Stewart had new valves in the original unopened bags from Mazda and was only a few miles away. They updated their samples after that event. 

 

Jim


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#10
Ron Alan

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Thanks for the explanation! All I was looking for...

 

I agree your explanation of how it went down makes the most sense...but I guarantee  there was a lot of unofficial chatter/pressure to verify what they believed to be true.

 

And I too have seen CCC collect some 1.6 valves that were OEM that at 1st they were going to DQ...until another respected source verified he had the exact same valves and it was determined that in fact it was another variation CCC hadn't seen.


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#11
Jim Drago

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.but I guarantee  there was a lot of unofficial chatter/pressure to verify what they believed to be true.

 

 

What does that matter and why do we even care? 


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#12
Ben-AdvancedAutosports

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We should be applauding the stewards for having enough integrity to admit a mistake and make it right, not trying to find fault in every decision that was made.  I also personally want tech to be willing to look at different components that have not been scrutinized in the past.  It gets really frustrating when we are in tech and the officials are doing a stall test, or checking OBD II compliance for the 12th time.

 

Is there a way to gather information and get it to tech before it gets to a race weekend without tipping everyone off on what they are going to be looking at?  This would have given some clarity to valves, bump stops, axles, heads, intakes, etc... in the past.  Ensuring compliance doesn't only have to take place in tech after a race is over.  Sometimes a little clarification and communication ahead of time ensures compliance without DQ ing a competitor and making a big scene.  


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#13
Martinracing98

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We should be applauding the stewards for having enough integrity to admit a mistake and make it right, not trying to find fault in every decision that was made.  I also personally want tech to be willing to look at different components that have not been scrutinized in the past.  It gets really frustrating when we are in tech and the officials are doing a stall test, or checking OBD II compliance for the 12th time.

 

Is there a way to gather information and get it to tech before it gets to a race weekend without tipping everyone off on what they are going to be looking at?  This would have given some clarity to valves, bump stops, axles, heads, intakes, etc... in the past.  Ensuring compliance doesn't only have to take place in tech after a race is over.  Sometimes a little clarification and communication ahead of time ensures compliance without DQ ing a competitor and making a big scene.  

 

I agree with the purpose of ensuring compliance. I took a seminar on race tech one time in karting years ago. It stressed the purpose is to ensure even playing field through compliance, not to catch cheaters. I think the racers become better educated by identifying maybe one of the items that will be tech'd. Then every driver is involved in attempting to be compliant, not just top 3 or so






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