33 replies to this topic

[38bfast]

Recommended new SCCA rules of the road. Passes by the CRB and waiting approval by the BOD.

 

To see the diagrams on SCCA sight, June Fastrack Preliminary Minutes/Tech Bulletin

05/13/20 - Preliminary Minutes

 

If you have any comments write a letter to SCCA CRB.

 

In GCR Appendix, add Racing Room & Guidelines as Appendix P. as follows: “Appendix P. Racing Room & Passing Guidelines

The Club Road Racing Program sincerely thanks Randy Pobst and Terry Earwood for developing these guidelines defining racing room and passing etiquette. Randy Pobst is a SCCA Hall of Fame member, a National Road Racing and Solo Champion,professional driver champion, and a very experienced driver’s coach. Terry Earwood is a legendary Skip Barber driver instructor,professional driver champion, professional driver’s coach, and is the current Driver Orientation Manager for the TransAm Racing Series.

The guidelines were created by Randy and Terry based on decades of racing experience and driver coaching. The guidelinesrepresent what the Club Road Racing Program’s intent is for General Competition Rules Section 6.11., Rules of the Road.

1. Racing Room & Passing Guidelines

Safe, successful passing is based on what drivers can see. An overtaking car bears the largest percentage of responsibly for passing safely.

2. Peripheral Vision

The overtaking car (the car attempting a pass) must get into the peripheral vision of the lead car (the car being passed) in the brake zone, before the lead car turns for the corner. Once the lead car turns for the corner, it can no longer see the trailing car,because the lead car’s mirrors now point outside, and the lead car is looking toward the apex.

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In GCR, Section 6.11.1.C, change as follows:

"C. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Drivers are entitled to one safe protective move. Once the

one safe move is made, any Aabrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake

or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room."

????????The diagram above shows that the overtaking car has gotten up to the A pillar and into the peripheral view of the lead car before turn in. The overtaking car now has taken the line away and earned the right to racing room on the inside.To earn the corner, the overtaking car must have its front end up to at least the A pillar post, or windshield, with the car under control, before the lead car turns into the corner. The goal is for the overtaking car to present itself, to arrive in the peripheral vision of the lead car, before it turns in.An overtaking open-wheel car should have its front wheel up to at least the lead car driver’s shoulder (within their peripheral vision) before the lead car begins its turn in.3. The Blind SpotThe diagram above shows at the lead car’s turn in point the overtaking car has yet to get even with the A pillar and into theperipheral vision of the lead car. The overtaking car is in a blind spot. Do not pass, unless the lead car is much slower and gives racing room.4. Racing RoomShould the lead car decide to ‘go with him’, side-by-side, then both cars must allow each other racing room, at least a car width plus six inches or so, to the edges of the racing surface. In both cases, the trailing car must be in the lead car’s peripheral visionto safely hold position. If not in vision, then the trailing car must back off and follow, because the lead car cannot see it.

???? ????The biggest mistake, and a common cause of contact, is the overtaking car taking a shortcut to the apex, from that blind spot(Turn One at Road Atlanta is classic). Pull parallel to the lead car, and as close as safely possible so that he KNOWS you’re there. Sometimes, the lead car may turn in early; therefore the overtaking car must be under enough control to avoid contact.5. Passing on StraightsOn straights, the lead car is allowed “one safe move”. It is allowed to choose a side, but cannot move back, and cannot moveover in reaction to an overtaking car if late enough to invite contact. He must leave a car’s width (plus 6 inches) of racing room if the overtaking car has already committed in that direction and has achieved an overlap next to the leader. No weaving to breakthe draft or to block; that’s more than one move. On straights, as opposed to corner entry, it is possible for the lead car to look into its mirrors and see the overtaking car, so if the overtaking car gets even a small overlap next to the lead car, the lead car must give the overtaking car room to race, and can no longer move across the track.When being passed, hold your line. This means be predictable, and do not change your line to pull out of the way. ‘Hold yourline’ does not mean take the line for the apex and turn in front when a much faster car is approaching. Be aware of faster traffic, and leave a lane of racing room for them.6. The Vortex of Danger

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The Entry Vortex of Danger is a triangle inscribed by the turn-in point of the lead car, the apex, and the inside edge of the road.When overtaking, keep out of the Vortex of Danger. It’s too late to pass. The hole you see is closing rapidly, you are in a blind spot, there will likely be contact, and it will be your fault.

The Exit Vortex of Danger is a triangle inscribed by the apex, the track-out point of the lead car, and the outside edge of the road. When attempting a pass on the outside, be aware of the Exit Vortex of Danger, and back out of it if not in the lead car’s vision. It’s too late to safely pass. The hole you see on the outside is closing rapidly, you are in a blind spot, there will likely be contact, and it will be your fault.

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7. The Outside Pass

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On this outside pass attempt, the overtaking outside car never presents itself into the vision of the lead car, and cannot expect it to make room for a car it cannot see at the exit of the turn. So the outside trailing car must back off to leave racing room for the inside lead car that cannot see it, and avoid the Exit Vortex of Danger. In this situation, if the outside car makes contact or runs off the road, it is most likely their fault.

Turn 5 at Road America is a prime example of where a lead car may protect his line by not using all of the track on the right. The overtaking car, in this example, needs to clearly 'present himself' in the braking zone before turn in, because the lead car is looking into the corner, not at his right mirror, and in all probability will not leave racing room at the exit. Outside passing works well when both drivers have excellent spatial awareness but is a very low percentage move in most cases.

Safe, successful passing depends on what a driver can see. Do not hit what you can see!”

In GCR, Section 6.11.1.C, change as follows: "C. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Drivers are entitled to one safe protective move. Once the one safe move is made, any Aabrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room."

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Just what we need new rules for passing but no rules for tire limiting!

[Ron Alan]

weighting or waiting approval?  This is usually me!

[38bfast]

weighting or waiting approval?  This is usually me!

fixed. 

[38bfast]

I sent this to the CRB

 

So how I read this if you are in the vortex you are at fault if contact is made. What if contact is not made? What if the car being passed yielded to avoid contact? By the rules he was in the right not to yield but made the decision not to have contact and relinquish his position. The pass was forced and not earned. What’s the ruling? Must you have contact to be in the right? A written rule needs to address this situation. 

 

My recommendation is the right to position is 1” of overlap. The A-pillar is just way too far up and if you don’t make it (say a foot shy) you can’t back out at that deep of a position. You are way too committed at that point. 

 

Because of the nature of this rule change the membership has to be educated on this new rule. What is SCCAs plan to reeducate all its members and volunteers? It’s imperative everyone be on the same page on and off track or this will be a wreck fest waiting to happen. Web testing? Fastrack is not going to be enough. 

[Tim Wright]

I presume the idea is, if the passing car can't make it as far as the A pillar before turn in, then it is their responsibility to back out, take evasive, or not attempt at all.

[38bfast]

I presume the idea is, if the passing car can't make it as far as the A pillar before turn in, then it is their responsibility to back out, take evasive, or not attempt at all.

And if he doesn’t and the car being passed yields to avoid contact, then what? Free pass? 

[FTodaro]

My post on FB

 

My read of the old rule was that if I saw someone on the inside of me at my door, I would not turn in. If they were at the rear Qtr panel I would expect them to back out but often If I did not know and trust them i would leave racing room. The other problem was if someone would attempt a pass where you would not expect it or it was an extremely low probability pass. This new rule articulates much more clearly, but you have the same issues as before, you can be right and wrecked at the same time. Honestly, this is a matter of common sense. When you’re in someone’s blind spot and not at the door you should have been ready to back out or go to the grass. The rules as written before were pretty weak this should help clarify things. I also like that it points out the one move on the straights, so tired of people running you off into the grass or moving to more than once. Pick a side and commit to it.

[Peter Olivola]

I sent this to the CRB

 

So how I read this if you are in the vortex you are at fault if contact is made. What if contact is not made? What if the car being passed yielded to avoid contact? By the rules he was in the right not to yield but made the decision not to have contact and relinquish his position. The pass was forced and not earned. What’s the ruling? Must you have contact to be in the right? A written rule needs to address this situation. 

 

My recommendation is the right to position is 1” of overlap. The A-pillar is just way too far up and if you don’t make it (say a foot shy) you can’t back out at that deep of a position. You are way too committed at that point. 

 

Because of the nature of this rule change the membership has to be educated on this new rule. What is SCCAs plan to reeducate all its members and volunteers? It’s imperative everyone be on the same page on and off track or this will be a wreck fest waiting to happen. Web testing? Fastrack is not going to be enough. 

 

Are you looking for a penalty to be applied if there is no contact?

 

If there's no contact, there's no incident, but asking this question suggests you've misread the proposal.  It doesn't replace anything in 6.11.1.  It's providing guidance to drivers on how to approach a passing situation and how responsibility for contact incidents will be evaluated by stewards. 

 

The key idea behind this is making responsibility clearer by introducing the idea that the driver with the clearest view of the situation has the highest responsibility for avoiding contact.  If the driver being overtaken knows you're making a questionable pass attempt and avoids contact there is no incident.  If the driver being overtaken wants to make an issue of it, not giving room if the overtaking car isn't up to the "A" pillar resulting in contact, whether he knew it or not, would be judged to be the responsibility of the overtaking driver.

 

If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at NASA's passing rules.  This proposal is far less encouraging of optimistic passes since it doesn't allow the overtaking driver to force the overtaken driver two wheels off if the overlap is to the "B" pillar.

[38bfast]

Our current rules

6.11.1 On Course Driver Conduct

1. Drivers are responsible to avoid physical contact between cars on the race track.

2. Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close quarters.

3. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room.

4. The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.

5. If a driver is involved in significant body contact, the driver and car shall stop at the designated inci- dent investigation site for review of the incident by the stewards before going to their paddock area. The designated incident investigation site shall be identified in the Supplemental Regulations and/or a written driver’s meeting. “Significant body contact” includes but is not limited to: contact resulting in 2 or 4 wheels off course, spins, loss of position, or repairs to suspension or bodywork.

 

The new Guidelines states you should not be in the vortex of doom. So my question is what if you are in the vortex and don't back out and there is no contact because the overtaken car avoided contact per rule A. So its all good if you in the vortex and no contact is made? So you can force the pass and if the guy moves out of the way it all good? 

[Peter Olivola]

 

Our current rules

6.11.1 On Course Driver Conduct

1. Drivers are responsible to avoid physical contact between cars on the race track.

2. Each competitor has a right to racing room, which is generally defined as sufficient space on the marked racing surface that under racing conditions, a driver can maintain control of his car in close quarters.

3. Drivers must respect the right of other competitors to racing room. Abrupt changes in direction that impede or affect the path of another car attempting to overtake or pass may be interpreted as an effort to deprive a fellow competitor of the right to racing room.

4. The overtaking driver is responsible for the decision to pass another car and to accomplish it safely. The overtaken driver is responsible to be aware that he is being passed and not to impede or block the overtaking car. A driver who does not use his rear view mirror or who appears to be blocking another car attempting to pass may be black flagged and/or penalized, as specified in Section 7.

5. If a driver is involved in significant body contact, the driver and car shall stop at the designated inci- dent investigation site for review of the incident by the stewards before going to their paddock area. The designated incident investigation site shall be identified in the Supplemental Regulations and/or a written driver’s meeting. “Significant body contact” includes but is not limited to: contact resulting in 2 or 4 wheels off course, spins, loss of position, or repairs to suspension or bodywork.

 

The new Guidelines states you should not be in the vortex of doom. So my question is what if you are in the vortex and don't back out and there is no contact because the overtaken car avoided contact per rule A. So its all good if you in the vortex and no contact is made? So you can force the pass and if the guy moves out of the way it all good? 

 

 

I'll ask again, are you looking to be able to penalize someone when there's no contact?

 

Nothing has changed WRT your hypothetical.  Before this new guideline if there's no contact and you haven't forced someone off the course there's nothing to investigate/penalize.  After implementation of this guideline if there's no contact and you haven't forced someone off the course there's nothing to investigate/penalize.

[Bench Racer]

Overall!!!

 

[38bfast]

I'll ask again, are you looking to be able to penalize someone when there's no contact?

 

Nothing has changed WRT your hypothetical.  Before this new guideline if there's no contact and you haven't forced someone off the course there's nothing to investigate/penalize.  After implementation of this guideline if there's no contact and you haven't forced someone off the course there's nothing to investigate/penalize.

With the proposed guidelines yes. Says you are not to be in the vortex of doom. So if you are whats the penalty? If there isn't a penalty whats the point of the rule. Or only if the rule is broken AND there is contact then there is a penalty? that would be like a cheater head is legal unless you win. 

 

with the old rule if you had 1 inch in "racing room" came into play and the overtaken car needs to leave room. With the new rule it's ok to chop down if he is not to your a-pillar even if you create contact. But that is in conflict with rule A. 

[38bfast]

Overall!!!

 

You would think this is important. Guess not. 

[Peter Olivola]

With the proposed guidelines yes. Says you are not to be in the vortex of doom. So if you are whats the penalty? If there isn't a penalty whats the point of the rule. Or only if the rule is broken AND there is contact then there is a penalty? that would be like a cheater head is legal unless you win. 

 

with the old rule if you had 1 inch in "racing room" came into play and the overtaken car needs to leave room. With the new rule it's ok to chop down if he is not to your a-pillar even if you create contact. But that is in conflict with rule A. 

 

Is it a rule or is it a guideline?  We haven't seen the final, approved version, but I read it as a guideline.  As a steward, it's what I would use to evaluate a contact incident to determine responsibility.  Unless you're advocating that non-contact position on the track, with the exception of the one move proposal, constitutes something that should be penalized this is a non-issue.

[38bfast]

Yes as I read it its a guideline to place fault. But it conflicts with rule A. 

 

So again I interpret it as you can play in the vortex until it goes bad. Or odds are good, 1 in 10 that a forced pass will pay out. The car being passed will move because he doesn't like his quarter reshaped and would like to continue to race. And I say a forced pass because the guideline says you should not be there in the fist place. 

[Peter Olivola]

Yes as I read it its a guideline to place fault. But it conflicts with rule A. 

 

So again I interpret it as you can play in the vortex until it goes bad. Or odds are good, 1 in 10 that a forced pass will pay out. The car being passed will move because he doesn't like his quarter reshaped and would like to continue to race. And I say a forced pass because the guideline says you should not be there in the fist place. 

 

Aren't there situations where you're racing close with another driver you trust and know what to expect and both of you get into the zone regularly without making contact and you consider it just good racing?

[38bfast]

Aren't there situations where you're racing close with another driver you trust and know what to expect and both of you get into the zone regularly without making contact and you consider it just good racing?

Yes and its great. But now with this new verbiage I don't know whats expected? or what I can get away with? Or what I can protest? or what I should be doing? 

 

The way the guideline is written is I can drive the overtaken car clear off the track if he does not make it to my A pillar. Well except for the rule that says I need to leave racing room. Clear as mud. 

[Jim Drago]

I like it.. 

There is no requirement to turn in if you see someone who isnt fully along side.  As old Saule Speedwell has said many times in the past.. What does being "right" with a dented up car sitting in the gravel trap win you?   I like it! 

Jim

[Peter Olivola]

Yes and its great. But now with this new verbiage I don't know whats expected? or what I can get away with? Or what I can protest? or what I should be doing? 

 

The way the guideline is written is I can drive the overtaken car clear off the track if he does not make it to my A pillar. Well except for the rule that says I need to leave racing room. Clear as mud. 

 

If you have to leave the racing surface to avoid contact and he was at or past your "A" pillar before entering the zone that's no different than if there were contact.  If he's behind it, it's only slightly less clear and would require other evidence.  Did you actually avoid contact or did you only think you needed to go off to avoid contact but he left sufficient room?  

 

This guideline addresses the clamor being raised to do something more specific about contact.  I see it as adding clarity to my ability to make a fault determination.  Otherwise, I don't see any change to 6.11.1.