42 replies to this topic

[Jamz14]

I am correct Ron.

All four corners have to be identical when it comes to wheel offsets and spacers.

Give me a few this morning and I'll post the rule. Ron, if there is ambiguity after I review it again, I'll reach out again to Xavier for clarification as was done for me previously.

[Jamz14]

I am correct Ron.

All four corners have to be identical when it comes to wheel offsets and spacers.

Give me a few this morning and I'll post the rule. Ron, if there is ambiguity after I review it again, I'll reach out again to Xavier for clarification as was done for me previously.

[Jamz14]

17. Wheel Assembly
17.1 Any fifteen (15.00) inch diameter rim/wheel with a maximum width of seven (7.00) inches, and a
minimum weight of thirteen (13.00) pounds, may be used. All four (4) rims must dimensionally match.
Other than the stock fifteen (15) inch Mazda steel wheels, all wheels must be one piece. (i.e. No multi
piece bolted, riveted, or welded wheels).
17.2 Toyo Proxes RR tires must be used for dry weather competition. The RA-1 will remain as the SM
legal wet weather competition tire going forward.
The Toyo RR or RA-1, size 205/50/15 must be used in qualifying and competition. Any tire brand/size
may be used in practice or other non-competition sessions. Shaving is allowed but not necessary with
the RR
17.3 Track Width
17.3.1 The front shall not exceed 1450.00mm.
17.3.2 The rear shall not exceed 1475.00mm
17.3.3 Aftermarket wheel studs, lug nuts, and wheel spacers are permitted. If spacers are used they
shall be no greater than 13mm in total and equal per axle.

Is there any confusion from the above that all four corners must match rim offsets and spacers?

[Tom Hampton]

Thanks for posting yet another copy of the same rules that Steve already posted---Which are (in this case) identical between 2019, and 2020...as opposed to your claim that they "changed this year" (except the tire wording---which is not relevant).  

 

17.1 Any fifteen (15.00) inch diameter rim/wheel with a maximum width of seven (7.00) inches, and a

minimum weight of thirteen (13.00) pounds, may be used. All four (4) rims must dimensionally match.
Other than the stock fifteen (15) inch Mazda steel wheels, all wheels must be one piece. (i.e. No multi
piece bolted, riveted, or welded wheels).

...

17.3.3 Aftermarket wheel studs, lug nuts, and wheel spacers are permitted. If spacers are used they

shall be no greater than 13mm in total and equal per axle.

 

It does not say EQUAL PER CORNER or ALL CORNERS MUST BE IDENTICAL.  It says all Wheels must be dimensionally identical...spacers must be identical per axle.

 

A point that Steve already made.  You are certainly earning your "broken record" badge today.  

[Tom Hampton]

I can see Steve posting....seems to be rather lengthy....or he's a VERY SLOW typist.    :-)

[Steve Scheifler]

I am correct Ron.

All four corners have to be identical when it comes to wheel offsets and spacers.

Give me a few this morning and I'll post the rule. Ron, if there is ambiguity after I review it again, I'll reach out again to Xavier for clarification as was done for me previously.

This should be interesting. I’ll wager that at least 95 out of 100 racers experienced in rule reading/writing/interpreting will be 100% definite in agreeing that based on the rules as written spacers can be different F/R. It could scarcely be more clear. Obviously you were told, or believed you were told, something different and that’s got you ignoring the plainly obvious, repeatedly. It’s likely a misunderstanding but if Xavier wrote or approved the rule intending for it to mean what you are saying then I’ll wager that it gets changed, because that absolutely, positively is not what it says. My advice, prepare to be wrong. Either you are are or the wording is.

[Steve Scheifler]

I can see Steve posting....seems to be rather lengthy....or he's a VERY SLOW typist. :-)

I tend to rethink and recalibrate a few times in cases like this. I need to do that elsewhere then paste it in.

[Tom Hampton]

I tend to rethink and recalibrate a few times in cases like this. I need to do that elsewhere then paste it in.

 

Bah!  Its the silly season.  It's kinda sad that this is the most controversial rules discussion we can come up with.  

[Jamz14]

Ok. I'm prepared to be wrong.

And gladly so if true.

I'll have nasa clarify

[bmarshall1]

So what's the verdict? I read it as the fronts can differ from the rears, as long as each axle uses the same size spacer and one doesn't go over the allowed track width.

[Jim Drago]

So what's the verdict? I read it as the fronts can differ from the rears, as long as each axle uses the same size spacer and one doesn't go over the allowed track width.

Thats correct

[Tom Hampton]

Thats correct

 

Don't tell Jamz.  

[Bench Racer]

Don't tell Jamz.  

Of course Jim was was referencing the SCCA rule, but then the NASA rule is the exact same rule words.

[Jim Drago]

Don't tell Jamz.  

I'm late to this party I went back and read this again.  This rule was written early on in my CRB tenor.  It is exactly as Steve has been describing.. Whoever said this to Jamz, whether it be SCCA or NASA was wrong in their interpretation. 

 

You can use any offset wheel within the rules as long as all four are the same

You can use any spacer you want up to 13 mm, must be the same per axle.. meaning you cant put 26 mm on right side and none on left..  

You can however put a pair of 12 mm spacers  in the front and none on the rear. ( providing you don't exceed track) 

 

Basically run any pair of spacers you like on both fronts or both rears less than 13mm and as long as it does not violate track rule and same thickness on both sides.  

[Tom Hampton]

I'm late to this party I went back and read this again.  This rule was written early on in my CRB tenor.  It is exactly as Steve has been describing.. Whoever said this to Jamz, whether it be SCCA or NASA was wrong in their interpretation. 

 

 

 

Maybe it was the same person who created CV-joint-gate.

[Jamz14]

So, I have received no feedback from NASA director on this so without that I am going to say that I was wrong. I have no idea why you would be constrained to run the same offset but can run different spacers front to rear.

 

So the next question up for debate is why is Tom Hampton such a twit? Chimes in on everything but doesn't lend anything to the conversation except trolling. I guess that is a safe position for an engineer that can't risk being wrong in anything lest it fall apart underneath him.

[Jim Drago]

. I have no idea why you would be constrained to run the same offset but can run different spacers front to rear.

 

 

At the time, we had people loading up spacers on one side and it started getting a little crazy. I actual like the rule as written( but was involved with it when written). We are supposed to be a "spec" class. That is the spec for offset and spacers. Maximize what you can within that spec. It is the same for all.     

[Tom Hampton]

 

So the next question up for debate is why is Tom Hampton such a twit? Chimes in on everything but doesn't lend anything to the conversation except trolling. I guess that is a safe position for an engineer that can't risk being wrong in anything lest it fall apart underneath him.

 

Lol.  

 

Says the person who claimed that the rule changed recently (and is different in NASA), and literally said  "I AM CORRECT"...on a rule that hasn't changed in AGES and is identical between organizations.  Is that a raven in your avatar or a Crow?  

 

As an engineer for the better part of 30 years, I've been wrong LOADS of times---but, I try not to make a habit of it.  I especially try not to be wrong the same way more than once.  

 

As for being a twit...I don't know what to say, I guess I underperformed.  I usually try to be more of an asshole.  

[Ron Alan]

In keeping the theme alive...

 

[bmarshall1]

Maybe it was the same person who created CV-joint-gate.

Now this I would like to hear about, thread link?