32 replies to this topic

[DrDomm]

Just a few questions...how are the "pre-bed pads" bed to the rotors?  In other words, if I buy "pre-bed" pads, what are they bed to?

 

What do I do with the pads and rotors that I apparently messed up?

 

When you switch pad compounds, do you need to switch rotors?

 

Why are these pads so complicated?

 

https://youtu.be/xW4Bs1jiI60

[Steve Scheifler]

As you’ve surmised, pre-bed is a misnomer, pre-baked or pre-gassed would be more honest. You still need to bed them, and the most important part of that is putting down a uniform film of pad material on the rotor.

Old rotors are fine, just sand them enough to remove any deposits or have them minimally turned. Pads are likely just glazed so you can sand them as well and they will probably be good to go.

As for why they are so difficult even compared to others you’ve run, ask the manufacturer but the easy answer is predictable enough. Personally I tried the various popular brands then settled on Cobalt which has none of these issues and were exceptional IMO, but lately I’m hearing about supply issues.

[Jim Drago]

I agree with what Steve said above.  Since I run the same compound all the time, I put pads on without changes rotors often.  I also put new pads on for one of the qualifying sessions.  I hit the brakes a few times for the first few corners while scrubbing and then went 100% with no issues. I have heard a few stories of pre bedding and decided quickly I didn't have time to waste for $20.00, so I have NEVER run anything but the pre bedded.  I know they are put in an oven and heated and basically heat cycled. But that is a question for Danny.

 

jim

[TylerQuance]

I also swear by G-Loc compounds and buying pre-bed. I run the 16/10 combo exclusively only because I have found 18s are hard on rotors. I don't believe I lose any braking ability to 18/12 users, I just push the pedal a touch harder. Also I send it 100% in the first session and don't worry much about bedding to rotors.

New pads are great and will always give the best initial bite mostly because they are flat and parallel. I always replace them with 3/4 meat left or more due to slight pad taper which causes drag and a spongy pedal. When I'm feeling crafty I'll put used pads on my mill and grind them flat and parallel again.

tq

[Ron Alan]

I also swear by G-Loc compounds and buying pre-bed. I run the 16/10 combo exclusively only because I have found 18s are hard on rotors. I don't believe I lose any braking ability to 18/12 users, I just push the pedal a touch harder. Also I send it 100% in the first session and don't worry much about bedding to rotors.

New pads are great and will always give the best initial bite mostly because they are flat and parallel. I always replace them with 3/4 meat left or more due to slight pad taper which causes drag and a spongy pedal. When I'm feeling crafty (or out of money) I'll put used pads on my mill and grind them flat and parallel again.

tq

Wow...3/4 meat? That is like 2 weekends max? I want to be your friend...LOL!

 

For what its worth...I've been putting 10's and 8's on my rentals for 4 years! I've had fast drivers in my cars and slow...wins and back of the pack! I just tell them...PUSH HARD! Eventually they will find that threshold! They wear well and good on rotors! 2 sets of fronts for every 1 set of rears...rotors get tossed after 2 sets! ONLY ONLY PREBED!!!!!!! Best thing is its hard to destroy tires with unwanted lock-up...instant release with big muscle twitch! 

 

For those novices who are reading this info...REMEMBER...stopping ability is a function of tire grip to pavement! Good Pads give you the ability to modulate on the very edge of that grip...think of slip angle in a straight line! The expense of better pads far out weighs(cost wise) the destruction of tires(flat spots). I think with G-loc's...the higher number comes with aggression/bit(more)...but also a heat factor? As Jim said...a question for Danny P!

[FTodaro]

Sort of a late post on this topic, but it was sad to see the amount of poor driving resulting in punts. What is worse is that there was no corrective action, investigation or loss of spots for poor decisions that resulted in some competitors being taken out of contention. In the biggest race of the year, you would hope for good driving and some respect for your ability to maintain your required racing room. Its sad that SCCA is not a bit more critical of poor driving as the failure to enforce it only encourages it IMO.

Punting should not stand in a championship race.

[gerglmuff2]

I also swear by G-Loc compounds and buying pre-bed. I run the 16/10 combo exclusively only because I have found 18s are hard on rotors. I don't believe I lose any braking ability to 18/12 users, I just push the pedal a touch harder. Also I send it 100% in the first session and don't worry much about bedding to rotors.

New pads are great and will always give the best initial bite mostly because they are flat and parallel. I always replace them with 3/4 meat left or more due to slight pad taper which causes drag and a spongy pedal. When I'm feeling crafty I'll put used pads on my mill and grind them flat and parallel again.

tq

im in the same boat, i can tell through the petal where my pads are at. i bleed every weekend, and sometimes the only variable ive changed is fresh pads, and boom, that confident brake petal is back. its amazing, because i wouldnt describe the brake petal as bad on older pads, but fresh pads are just better. 2-3 weekends a set of pads, and rotors are like free so why not?  the 1.6 only advantage is braking, and its good to keep the weapon sharp. i use g-loc 10/8 on mine. ive herd 12/10 is better on the 1.6 but rear pads last forever, so i have not made the switch. 

[Jim Drago]

im in the same boat, i can tell through the petal where my pads are at. i bleed every weekend, and sometimes the only variable ive changed is fresh pads, and boom, that confident brake petal is back. its amazing, because i wouldnt describe the brake petal as bad on older pads, but fresh pads are just better. 2-3 weekends a set of pads, and rotors are like free so why not?  the 1.6 only advantage is braking, and its good to keep the weapon sharp. i use g-loc 10/8 on mine. ive herd 12/10 is better on the 1.6 but rear pads last forever, so i have not made the switch. 

 I think I would try upping that pad combo up as well

[Ron Alan]

Sort of a late post on this topic, but it was sad to see the amount of poor driving resulting in punts. What is worse is that there was no corrective action, investigation or loss of spots for poor decisions that resulted in some competitors being taken out of contention. In the biggest race of the year, you would hope for good driving and some respect for your ability to maintain your required racing room. Its sad that SCCA is not a bit more critical of poor driving as the failure to enforce it only encourages it IMO.

Punting should not stand in a championship race.

I wrote something similar but deleted it a few days ago...was hoping a driver with 1st hand knowledge would comment...rather than arm chair mine and many others initial thoughts from a distance. I see no action on the official results so I assume anything that was looked at was deemed "racing incident". My guess is there were some reported incidents but did any drivers file paper?

The cars/incidents that caused the double yellows I dont believe showed up on the broadcast. Were they spin and collects or caused by poor driving? These double yellows effectively sealed that fate of some and brought the race back to others...part of racing but really sucks if you are the guys walking the field.

No idea what the percentage is but more often than not our cars can touch in a side by side(overlap) position with nothing but bent mirrors or a donut mark...but when they suck together and leave the track as one....UHGG! Whoever it was that got into Preston starting that mess with Gouliart wasnt on his game.

I'm with Frank in wondering why SCCA seemingly doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings?? Shit happens in tight quarters but when it starts with an obvious lack of car control those drivers need to be reeled back...which makes the majority of drivers who are doing the right things have faith in the system.

[38bfast]

You would think at the big race of the year that the stewards would be on top of their game and look at contact. But instead we get black all for scabbing tires where there was no incident or anyones car damaged. 

[Jim Drago]

I wrote something similar but deleted it a few days ago...was hoping a driver with 1st hand knowledge would comment...rather than arm chair mine and many others initial thoughts from a distance. I see no action on the official results so I assume anything that was looked at was deemed "racing incident". My guess is there were some reported incidents but did any drivers file paper?

The cars/incidents that caused the double yellows I dont believe showed up on the broadcast. Were they spin and collects or caused by poor driving? These double yellows effectively sealed that fate of some and brought the race back to others...part of racing but really sucks if you are the guys walking the field.

No idea what the percentage is but more often than not our cars can touch in a side by side(overlap) position with nothing but bent mirrors or a donut mark...but when they suck together and leave the track as one....UHGG! Whoever it was that got into Preston starting that mess with Gouliart wasnt on his game.

I'm with Frank in wondering why SCCA seemingly doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings?? Shit happens in tight quarters but when it starts with an obvious lack of car control those drivers need to be reeled back...which makes the majority of drivers who are doing the right things have faith in the system.

Well I think I had first hand information in two wrecks

 

Its always frustrating getting taken out of any race, but when you feel you had arguably the best chance of winning it is crushing.  I started third, got inside Voytek at turn 1 left plenty of room, cleared him out of 3 and again left plenty of room.  He got a bump and air from his team mate and pulled back up heading into 5. I turned in from the outside in 5 and left room. I was half a car ahead going into six and on the outside. I rim shot the corner  and gave him almost two cars worth of room at the apex.  Voytek hit the big apex curb( perhaps trying to give me room) and shot out into me and I was simply in his trajectory.  His contact was not intentional, but a mistake.  I believe he was well aware that once I cleared him for good, I would have pushed his teammate away as I did twice earlier in the year at gateway, so he may have looked at that as his best chance, I don't know.  Unintentional contact would not have bothered me at all if it resulted in no position change or loss of only one spot, never has. I realize this is amateur racing and we all make mistakes, myself included but IMO that is not a mistake you expect from anyone qualifying in top 5 in a 75 car field on lap one.   Voytek was also the car that got into Preston, he may have had help under braking as well, I don't know.  Voytek did come up and apologize to me.  As frustrated as I was, that's all you can do or say at that point.  Protesting does not get my opportunity back.  I realize that isn't the point, but that was my decision. 

  

The second one was just a result of what was started in the first one. We both came on the track off speed and slowed traffic behind us, cars from behind passed us at speed on both sides. When we got to the corner there was not enough track and two cars touched and spun me around. Race basically over before it started from there. 

 

FWIW, none of this was called in at all, however a customer passing me under yellow for 25-30th, was called in ( both instances were in turn 6 ) Go figure    

[Tom Sager]

I have posted my video from the race, and that can be viewed here:

 

http://youtu.be/WSvoVsWcd5c

 

Overall the race went well for me, and I put and kept my car in a car spot to contend for the win throughout the whole race, but the way the chips fell at the end it just wasn't my day. Huge Congratulations to Preston for a great drive and phenomenal last lap coming from 7th to 1st! 

Tyler you and your Dad have a ton to be proud of.  You were right there at the end, RIGHT THERE! 

[tylerbrown]

Tyler you and your Dad have a ton to be proud of.  You were right there at the end, RIGHT THERE! 

 

Thank you Tom!