58 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

Yeah, on FB I push back on the nasty comments but here I take it more as a loving jab depending on the source. I certainly wouldn’t put much money on EVERY one of 72 or 90 cars passing a rigorous tech, a lot of guys probably don’t even know the full history of their own cars and engines. And we don’t need to go back far to find more recent examples, however insignificant they might seem. But absolutely the field at a big race today is likely the “cleanest” it’s ever been overall and I make that point repeatedly online and in person regularly.

[Jamz14]

So the rules have finally been modified enough to make all the cars compliant? Cool.

[tylerbrown]

I have uploaded my video from the race. It can be viewed at the link below. Overall I thought I drove a decent race, was up in p3 right with Bruni in p2 for a few laps, but ran in fourth for half of the race up until I started to get shuffled back, and then it went downhill pretty quickly. I was having trouble with running how I did during all of the qualifying sessions, and as a result I started to go backwards having a slower pace and could not stay in the fight after lap 12-14 or so, falling from 4th to 10th. Then add on one braking mistake in turn one to let Elivan and Davis get by easily to end up finishing 12th.

 

[Steve Scheifler]

So the rules have finally been modified enough to make all the cars compliant? Cool.

Sigh.
Tell you what, give us a few examples and explain how the class would be better or more competitive if they had not been done.

[Jamz14]

I'll give you one example and it should be enough to understand my position and for you to identify multiple other examples

Slotted rear control arm. Now legal.

[Steve Scheifler]

I'll give you one example and it should be enough to understand my position and for you to identify multiple other examples

Slotted rear control arm. Now legal.

You missed the second half of my challenge. To rephrase, explain how that was bad for the class. Then do the same with those multiple others. Doesn’t have to be all at once, we have time.

[Jamz14]

Never said that making the changes were bad for the class. My point is that the cars are legal because the rules were changed after the fact. Do I really need to bring up other examples?

Why are we to believe that people and things are different now? Did people change, did we run out of areas to push it, get caught, and change the rules to allow?

For context, I am not complaining. I believe that it is our job to push the rules and it is the job of tech and organizations to provide boundaries, clarification, and enforcement.

I also propose that until there is a good way to tech the ecu, no one can have total confidence that there isnt things going on. If we can change the rules for control arms to solve a problem after the fact, then I see no reason why a rule change to adopt aftermarket ecus cant be done. A aftermarket ecu would address multiple concerns, as well as introduce some that would need to be managed. But let's not kid ourselves about not doing stuff like ecu because of the spirit of what the class was originally based on. That concept is dead. I believe in the next 1 to 2 years we are going to see many changes to the class that were once thought of as taboo and contrary to the class premise.

[gerglmuff2]

aftermarket ECUs would be a very bad idea for the class. 

policing ECUs could be done with the support of mazda. 

[Jamz14]

No, policing ecus cant be done even with help from mazda. I've discussed with them and it is practically not possible to do.

[Jamz14]

Why is it bad for class? SMX is doing it successfully.

[Jim Drago]

Why is it bad for class? SMX is doing it successfully.

Maybe SMX is calling your name? Can you give me your definition of “successfully” please

[Jamz14]

It is. But I can do two things at once. Successful: no complaints that I know of. Your definition of failure? Or unsuccessful?

[Jamz14]

You've run the cars. What's wrong with the ecu program?

[Steve Scheifler]

Go back to that first comment. What was the point? What should any reader infer? If something was caught and dealt with, and later rules were changed to both reduce the benefits of cheating AND reduce costs or close a gap between haves and have-nots, then what’s the problem? Then you say you expect people to push and tech to find. So what the actual fudge is your problem? In the end you just sound like someone looking for a reason to piss on the sport.

As for ECUs, we’ve been through this countless times. Opening them up is completely different from anything else. If you don’t understand that yet I probably can’t explain it to you. But suffice to say that no matter what anyone might be doing it’s obviously not making much difference. If you don’t believe me then by all means install a stand-alone ECU into your restrictor plate car and spend the money for dyno time then report back to us. Or come here and I’ll give you all the free dyno time you want.

[chris haldeman]

I will help Steve sponsor this adventure. Ecu is a dead issue amd easily teched in Nasa where jamz14 races. Any meaningful modification would easily show up on dyno while logging the pull with obd2 scanner. Fuel curve shown via sniffer,timing curve easily monitored on scanner,vvt actuation easily monitored and has been at every champs since 2016?? Jeff and Xavier are on it and the ask and deliver protocols in scanner are easily seen.

[chris haldeman]

Smx ecu is a programmed amd sealed factory unit. Easy to do on a modern flash prom car. Impossible on the spec miata ecu.

[Jim Drago]

Go back to that first comment. What was the point? What should any reader infer? If something was caught and dealt with, and later rules were changed to both reduce the benefits of cheating AND reduce costs or close a gap between haves and have-nots, then what’s the problem? Then you say you expect people to push and tech to find. So what the actual fuck is your problem? In the end you just sound like someone looking for a reason to piss on the sport.

As for ECUs, we’ve been through this countless times. Opening them up is completely different from anything else. If you don’t understand that yet I probably can’t explain it to you. But suffice to say that no matter what anyone might be doing it’s obviously not making much difference. If you don’t believe me then by all means install a stand-alone ECU into your restrictor plate car and spend the money for dyno time then report back to us. Or come here and I’ll give you all the free dyno time you want.

Exactly

 

FWIW, I believe the 4 ecus from the VVT cars that were taken in January at SCCA super tour were taken after months of planning with Mazda. Like Jamz, a few on SMAC were convinced  there was something going on, particularly with my cars. As I knew, nothing was found bc nothing was done.  I don't know what was checked ( don't really care), but I do believe they were checked by Mazda and do believe Mazda obviously has the ability. As I said, they planned this for months.  I am sure they had the ability to check them. We aren't doing it and don't feel like we are getting beat by anyone doing it.  I have had a VVT with a tuned megasquirt, knock yourself out there is not much there. I'm not worried about it.

 

As far as calling something successful, perhaps do some research and make sure what you are posting is correct?  I dont know where they are with it now, but there were multiple issues with the spec ecu the first year.  Many ecus were sent back because of mis match trim levels, certain things didnt program correctly, like auto blip and a few others did not work on many cars. To find out more accurately, call Josh at Mazda, he is well aware.  I have not followed since leaving that class, I would imagine it has been worked out by now, but I really dont know.  I feel with 100% certainity, the ecu program in Sm is as "Spec" as spec MX5 or any other class.  The gains are small to none, to cheat would make little to no sense IMO other than a to a keyboard jockey looking for more problems in our class that dont exist. Don't try to change our class to something you like, just go to this great classes and race with them

 

Jim

[gerglmuff2]

the non plated cars would gain from an open ECU, for sure. 

but open ECUs are dumb idea. they should not be seriously considered. 

[Marc Cefalo]

the non plated cars would gain from an open ECU, for sure. 

but open ECUs are dumb idea. they should not be seriously considered. 

open ecu's is a dead issue.

 

not gonna happen...period.

 

besides being a complete can of worms, not every platform would benefit the same from one being allowed.