88 replies to this topic

[Kyle Freiheit]

Does anyone have a clue how many people are racing 99+ across the country? Curious to see how many 99+ have been built etc. My gut feeling is that SM gets real small, real fast if its all 99+, no restrictor. Yeah, the big races will be well attended but not across the country as a whole.

 

I haven't really compiled all my thoughts on the subject yet but I could see it being a positive that everyone could be on the same motor, suspension and diff. It could allow a new life on the NA cars(where perception seems to have become reality). I also see some huge problems with that too.

1) Cost of doing a FULL swap, is it cheaper to just build a NB?

2) Parts availability(didn't we just find out that the 99 motor isn't being made anymore?). Should we step up to the 01+?

3) Do you allow partial swaps?(just the motor and diff etc), How hard is it to swap in the NB harness?

 

 

Kyle

[Mitch Reading]

A few different blends even within '99-'05.  I believe a few frontrunners are now building '01+ cars, over their top prep '99s. 

[Bench Racer]

Proposal #2:  Make 90-97 SM's allowable in the HP class, with no allowable changes from SM drive train or suspensions.  Tires, wheels, flywheels, areo, ride height, etc. would be free.  At last year's Run-Offs on a track that amplifies small differences, the leading first generation SM would have been 5th on the grid without the benefit of an open race tire, flywheel or aero.  STL is open to SM cars now, but requires additional development for the 90-97 to be competitive.  

 

These comments are not posted to be negative, just fact from the past and a current step up ladder system.

 

Several years ago when G production was still alive, but sort of kicking like the horse, Scott Peterson of MidDiv and myself attempted to get the Mazda Rx7 12A (rotary motor) classed in G production (we both raced RX7's). It really riled the folks in H and G production. It was a no go from the CRB and I don't remember the excusses for it to be not included. One excuse was that production is a devoleper/tinkers class and the RX7 at OEM fit to good.

 

I my humble jugment there is all ready a ladder system within the SCCA for those who are bored with Spec Miata speeds to STEP UP to and race at faster speeds.

 

At this time the 1.6 may race in either F or E production.

 

At this time the 1.8 may race in E production.

 

There are also other upward SCCA classes the Miata may race.

[LarryKing]

Making the 99+ the default SM is short-sighted. The 2006+ MX5 should become SM. You could still allow 1990-2005 Miatas to race as SM, just without any expectation of being competitive.

 

I think this is the most democratic solution as it requires everyone to re-invest at an equal level if they want to be competitive.

[Johnny D]

Making the 99+ the default SM is short-sighted. The 2006+ MX5 should become SM. You could still allow 1990-2005 Miatas to race as SM, just without any expectation of being competitive.

 

I think this is the most democratic solution as it requires everyone to re-invest at an equal level if they want to be competitive.

Isn't that how it is??

 

"If you can't (or think you can't) beat them, join them. Buy a 99

J~

[LarryKing]

Looking long-term.

[Johnny D]

Oh, so you got your parameters all figured so no car will have the slightest advantage.

This should be good.

J~

[George Munson]

I for one don't want to see any more dividing of the class as it sits. As someone who races Nationals and Regionals, I don't want to be swapping weights and plates between all the races. Heck I even quit doing NASA because of the tire difference. Instead of trying to slow the older cars down why can't we speed early cars up. Yes it will cost money, but who doesn't want to go faster. There are a lot more early donor parts available than "99's" and up. A pipe, cam shafts, flywheel, or even a speced ECU could do the trick. I don't know the exact formula. I just feel there has to be an answer to do both.

 

Just My 2 cents, 

[Kyle Freiheit]

These comments are not posted to be negative, just fact from the past and a current step up ladder system.

 

Several years ago when G production was still alive, but sort of kicking like the horse, Scott Peterson of MidDiv and myself attempted to get the Mazda Rx7 12A (rotary motor) classed in G production (we both raced RX7's). It really riled the folks in H and G production. It was a no go from the CRB and I don't remember the excusses for it to be not included. One excuse was that production is a devoleper/tinkers class and the RX7 at OEM fit to good.

 

I my humble jugment there is all ready a ladder system within the SCCA for those who are bored with Spec Miata speeds to STEP UP to and race at faster speeds.

 

At this time the 1.6 may race in either F or E production.

 

At this time the 1.8 may race in E production.

 

There are also other upward SCCA classes the Miata may race.

I agree that there is a ladder. Production doesn't fit with alot of the SM demographic, heck it doesn't really seem to fit with alot of the SCCA demographic these days, if you look at the numbers. Dont forget that you have got this HUGE base of 1.6 cars out there who are owned by people that will not be converting them to some other class. If they are not kept competitive, some could move to ITA, STL or some production class or maybe they cut their losses and move to some other class. How good would it be for anyone in SM to have hundreds of 1.6 cars for sale in the classifieds?

 

Kyle

[Rob Burgoon]

I recently bought a dirt oval modified.  over 400hp, 2450lbs, $10K used.  My ladder might be oval shaped.

[pat slattery]

How about giving the 1.6 a cam, and larger restrictor, or no restrictor for the 94 and up cars if we can get a cam for the 1.6 to keep up with the non restricted cars

[Rob Burgoon]

How about giving the 1.6 a cam, and larger restrictor, or no restrictor for the 94 and up cars if we can get a cam for the 1.6 to keep up with the non restricted cars

 

Still sucks.  The 1.6 cars will probably have an even more funny shaped torque curve if you put cams in.

[pat slattery]

It would be nice to see a good 99 torque and hp curve.  Never actually seen one, all I see are 1.6

[Jim Drago]

How about giving the 1.6 a cam, and larger restrictor, or no restrictor for the 94 and up cars if we can get a cam for the 1.6 to keep up with the non restricted cars

 

So if we give you cams, what do we do with the 1.6 cars out west or the Miatacage builds or the one and only attempt I made? Give them stock cams and a restrictor plate while we allow you to run performance cams to even it out?  Maybe we should start rewards weights? Head starts?  

[Brendan O]

One such proposal that is floating around.. With Club racing moving to majors and "club racing next year.. Perhaps it is time to turn SM into 99/05 only for majors and Runoffs, 2400 no plate.   I race teh SM at 2400 and no plate, it is a lot of fun.

 

Just a thought

 

For me, this is REALLY exciting. Jim, if you and others could do this you would see me at the very first 2014 race with my 2003 OPM car. It cost quite a bit (at least for me) to build. I love driving my car with no plate and have been sitting on fence regarding getting my regional license and doing w2w with all the SMs. If above could happen, i would be the first to sign up for SCCA Double school in Jan, 2014. I would like to race my 1.8L without a huge amount of weight and a plate. I know it will take me a little while to move from regionals to nationals to Majors but I really hope this happens !!!

[john mueller]

Even if we instituted a HP to weight ratio limit the better brakes & handling of the NB would become more of the difference (it's not just power folks).  Do we then spec rotors & pads for specific yrs, then different shocks for each year?  Our rule book is a funkin mess already...
 

Bottom line is this: Pat (with all due respect) is gonna complain no matter what is done and folks who think 1mm in a RP and/or -15lbs will miraculously put their car on the podium (nationally) will remain delusional, again with all due respect.

Really.  If anyone can say with a straight face that overall 2012 & this season so far are worse than 2009 then I'd like to hear your reasoning as see your proof to support the claim.  Otherwise, stop pandering for the year you campaign and take my job as NASA's National SM Director cuz I'm getting tired of the biased noise.

 

Yeah, that's what I thought....

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Mueller. I love you man...

[Mike Collins]

How about giving the 1.6 a cam, and larger restrictor, or no restrictor for the 94 and up cars if we can get a cam for the 1.6 to keep up with the non restricted cars

 

Sorry Pat it does not work like that.  The problem is not the cam.  The cam will not fix your A/F.  You need a bigger AFM (maybe from an older RX7 ;0 ).  The 1.6 does not flow enough air, maybe we could let you use a JDM inlet tube  or maybe I should just stop talking about over the top prep on 1.6 cars....

[pat slattery]

So if we give you cams, what do we do with the 1.6 cars out west or the Miatacage builds or the one and only attempt I made? Give them stock cams and a restrictor plate while we allow you to run performance cams to even it out?  Maybe we should start rewards weights? Head starts?  

Jim, did you read my post.  We are discussing parity, some want to remove the restrictors off the 99 and up and drop the 1.6 and 1.8 out of the National class structure.  I was trying to offer up some alternative to include all the cars.  WTF is the smart ass   comment about reward weight or head starts for

[Jim Drago]

Jim, did you read my post.  We are discussing parity, some want to remove the restrictors off the 99 and up and drop the 1.6 and 1.8 out of the National class structure.  I was trying to offer up some alternative to include all the cars.  WTF is the smart ass   comment about reward weight or head starts for

I thought it was in the same spirit as the cams comment?

 

 I doubt what I mentioned above will ever happen. If it did, one of the primary reasons would to eliminate exactly what you asked for and the balancing act that we have now.   99-05 ONLY Majors and Nationals. 90-05 in club racing with 99/05 say +100 lbs and same plates as now to help cut down on the prep of club racing cars. This would be for 2015 the earliest, but the downside IMO outweighs the potential upside