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Tires, Tires, and more tires
Posted by
davecarama
,
01-20-2011
·
927 views
I have been on full track tires for the past... well since I can remember. I started on Kumho Victoracers (what was it, V100), quickly moved on to Hoosier, and have tried Toyo R88, RA1, Yokohama AD07 and A048, and of course hybrid tires like the Falken Azinis.
I got pretty lucky early on in my driving addiction when I was introduced to a Hoosier distributer for the region. He was the son of a co-worker of mine, and set me up with a dealer account. So I get tires about $200 (or more) per set cheaper than MSRP. That certainly helps the ol' racing budget! Once I started time trials, winning top 3 scored me 1 free tire per race, EVEN BETTER!!! Now, if only I can score a 1st place win... then I'll get 2 tires per race!
I have been asked a few times about the differences between the tires, and why I chose the Hoosiers (since to most people they appear to cost more). Well, my relationship with Hoosier certainly keeps me coming back, but I also prefer the feel I get from the tires.
Now, I am no engineer, or even an expert on tires by any stretch of the imagination, but I will try to explain MY opinion (which is 110% based on my butt dyno). Of course, I am always open to discussion, so please feel free to chime in!
Kumho V100
This was my very first competition tire. I used them for MANY autocrosses and perhaps 2-4 track events per season. I was not competing in track events, nor was I competing in high level autocrossing, so I was not worried about the heat cycle number and tires hardening. Like I said, these were my first comp tires, and to me, it was like magic (or better yet, when it came to autocross, cheating)! They were SO good compared to my OEM All season tires! I do remember that they would get pretty hard later in life, and I don't recall ever cording a set of V100 tires before they were retired and thrown away.
Hoosier Tires
I remember feeling the same going from V100 to the Hoosiers as I did when I went from Street tires to V100. It was like I was cheating all over again, they were SO fast!
I remember the R3S03-R3S05 tires, and whenever they would swap to a new compound, I would get the leftovers for around $50 per tire... which was a WICKED deal! Hoosier has had a lot of luck with the R6/A6 compound and has had it in the line-up unchanged since... well, 2006 I guess!
I still drive on these tires, and have played with others and always come back. The sidewall is by far the stiffest out of all of the tires I have used. To me, that translates to precision feel when it comes to turning. You know where your car is at all times. You can feel the bumps in the surface of the road, and the curbs and the transitions. There is no "turn, set, go" like you would experience extremely exaggeratedly with super soft street tires. It is simply turn and go. When I compare that feeling to other comp tires, it is like Hoosier is High Def TV and the others are Standard Def. I guess that full racing slicks would be 3DHD TV (have not tried them yet).
When it comes to properly heat cycling a Hoosier, the factory paperwork has some processes to go through, and I have both followed those instructions, and I have taken them (stickers and all) and jumped right onto the track. I think I got MAYBE 4 more HPDE sessions (translates to one day) before cording when I did the recommended heat cycle before full track use.
When it comes to tire wear, I think the Hoosiers last the longest as well. Lots of people talk about "cycling out" the tire based on the number of heat cycles you get out of them and the degradation of grip as they get older and more cycles. I feel like, and have heard from other drivers, that the hoosiers are faster than the other tires out of the box. I feel like they do drop off a little, but not enough to put them below the other tires, maybe on par. I ALWAYS drive my Hoosiers until I see the fabric first layer of cords. That is roughly 10 weekends, or roughly about 2000 miles (80 twenty-minute sessions).
Toyo R888
I think of these tires as good autocross tires... good street tires... good track tires (but only for HPDE weekends). My experience with these is in both the Elise and in the Miata.
In the Elise, I thought they were the best, they shed water (at full tread) better than both of the OEM options. They were the perfect tire for duel purpose, street and track. I drove them all year round in the DC area, and yes, I did park the car a few times at random grocery stores, but only in serious ice storms. Their performance was lacking though. On the track, they were fantastic for the first weekend, the next weekend the performance dropped, and by the 4th weekend, they were rock solid and slippery. In the Miata I was given leftover used tires. They were better than my year old hoosiers, that sat on the car through snowpocolipse, flat, for about 4 months in the freezing weather... But so were military issue hummer tires...
Toyo RA1
I like these tires. They stick like and are capable of times in the ballpark of the Hoosiers, but they feel very different. The sidewalls of these (and the 888) are actually pretty soft compared to the Hoosiers. When you turn the car, you can feel the tire wall flex. That was something that took some getting used to. But the rumors are true. The tires got faster and faster the more you used them. I did like the RA1 a lot.
Why am I talking about tires all of a sudden? My Hoosier rep is had an open house (I mentioned it in a previous post). I picked up my tires there and checked out the cool car swag. Huge discount plus no shipping... AWESOME! I also saw a post on MazdaRacers.com about tires and wanted to comment here too.
Tire buying time is always exciting for me. It means the season is getting closer!!!
Dave
I got pretty lucky early on in my driving addiction when I was introduced to a Hoosier distributer for the region. He was the son of a co-worker of mine, and set me up with a dealer account. So I get tires about $200 (or more) per set cheaper than MSRP. That certainly helps the ol' racing budget! Once I started time trials, winning top 3 scored me 1 free tire per race, EVEN BETTER!!! Now, if only I can score a 1st place win... then I'll get 2 tires per race!
I have been asked a few times about the differences between the tires, and why I chose the Hoosiers (since to most people they appear to cost more). Well, my relationship with Hoosier certainly keeps me coming back, but I also prefer the feel I get from the tires.
Now, I am no engineer, or even an expert on tires by any stretch of the imagination, but I will try to explain MY opinion (which is 110% based on my butt dyno). Of course, I am always open to discussion, so please feel free to chime in!
Kumho V100
This was my very first competition tire. I used them for MANY autocrosses and perhaps 2-4 track events per season. I was not competing in track events, nor was I competing in high level autocrossing, so I was not worried about the heat cycle number and tires hardening. Like I said, these were my first comp tires, and to me, it was like magic (or better yet, when it came to autocross, cheating)! They were SO good compared to my OEM All season tires! I do remember that they would get pretty hard later in life, and I don't recall ever cording a set of V100 tires before they were retired and thrown away.
Hoosier Tires
I remember feeling the same going from V100 to the Hoosiers as I did when I went from Street tires to V100. It was like I was cheating all over again, they were SO fast!
I remember the R3S03-R3S05 tires, and whenever they would swap to a new compound, I would get the leftovers for around $50 per tire... which was a WICKED deal! Hoosier has had a lot of luck with the R6/A6 compound and has had it in the line-up unchanged since... well, 2006 I guess!
I still drive on these tires, and have played with others and always come back. The sidewall is by far the stiffest out of all of the tires I have used. To me, that translates to precision feel when it comes to turning. You know where your car is at all times. You can feel the bumps in the surface of the road, and the curbs and the transitions. There is no "turn, set, go" like you would experience extremely exaggeratedly with super soft street tires. It is simply turn and go. When I compare that feeling to other comp tires, it is like Hoosier is High Def TV and the others are Standard Def. I guess that full racing slicks would be 3DHD TV (have not tried them yet).
When it comes to properly heat cycling a Hoosier, the factory paperwork has some processes to go through, and I have both followed those instructions, and I have taken them (stickers and all) and jumped right onto the track. I think I got MAYBE 4 more HPDE sessions (translates to one day) before cording when I did the recommended heat cycle before full track use.
When it comes to tire wear, I think the Hoosiers last the longest as well. Lots of people talk about "cycling out" the tire based on the number of heat cycles you get out of them and the degradation of grip as they get older and more cycles. I feel like, and have heard from other drivers, that the hoosiers are faster than the other tires out of the box. I feel like they do drop off a little, but not enough to put them below the other tires, maybe on par. I ALWAYS drive my Hoosiers until I see the fabric first layer of cords. That is roughly 10 weekends, or roughly about 2000 miles (80 twenty-minute sessions).
Toyo R888
I think of these tires as good autocross tires... good street tires... good track tires (but only for HPDE weekends). My experience with these is in both the Elise and in the Miata.
In the Elise, I thought they were the best, they shed water (at full tread) better than both of the OEM options. They were the perfect tire for duel purpose, street and track. I drove them all year round in the DC area, and yes, I did park the car a few times at random grocery stores, but only in serious ice storms. Their performance was lacking though. On the track, they were fantastic for the first weekend, the next weekend the performance dropped, and by the 4th weekend, they were rock solid and slippery. In the Miata I was given leftover used tires. They were better than my year old hoosiers, that sat on the car through snowpocolipse, flat, for about 4 months in the freezing weather... But so were military issue hummer tires...
Toyo RA1
I like these tires. They stick like and are capable of times in the ballpark of the Hoosiers, but they feel very different. The sidewalls of these (and the 888) are actually pretty soft compared to the Hoosiers. When you turn the car, you can feel the tire wall flex. That was something that took some getting used to. But the rumors are true. The tires got faster and faster the more you used them. I did like the RA1 a lot.
Why am I talking about tires all of a sudden? My Hoosier rep is had an open house (I mentioned it in a previous post). I picked up my tires there and checked out the cool car swag. Huge discount plus no shipping... AWESOME! I also saw a post on MazdaRacers.com about tires and wanted to comment here too.
Tire buying time is always exciting for me. It means the season is getting closer!!!
Dave
