Great tip! I haven’t noticed noise issues in our data but we never used AEM widebands. A lot of people do and it’s probably not just AEM so definitely something to watch for.

Doubt it's the aem. I've run an AEM for 7+ years. But, I use shielded twisted pair cable for all my analog data inputs. Shield grounded at the data logger end, only.

Single ended sensors with chassis ground are a recipe for noise coupling.

I did a combo of those things. I have stack Guages for water temp and oil pressure, and afr. I have a fuel pressure sensor wired to the data system, and I have idiot lights for water pressure and oil pressure right in my sight line on top of the dash hood.

The real secret is.... Shut up, and drive. Haldeman, Drago, pardus will all beat you at 40 psi one handed... While flipping you off with the other. Or in some cases knee driving and flipping you off with both fingers.

Tom - in follow up, what do you use to gauge set up and adjustment instead of temps? Pressure increase, wear patterns, lap times...

Grrr....most post didn't save.

My name is Tom, two (too).

All of the above. Pressure, pressure increase, wear patterns...especially differences between tires. Not that perfectly even pressure growth is NOT the goal, but if something is wildly different, and I had a handling problem that'd be where I'd start. Lap time rules, though. As Saul has said in other threads...."If flipping a brake pad backwards is faster, well....then do that!" So, faster is as faster does.

So, if you've got a corner that's growing 9psi, and everything else is +6....and you've got a handling problem that's related to that corner...then maybe a change is in order (cross or arb) to take some pressure off that tire.

I've taken to recording my tire pressures on my windshield through the day (hot and cold in different colors). I find it really handy to be able to just stare at the car, and see the patterns in pressures over a day's sessions while trying to decide what to do.

LOL at least everyone agrees- OK, here's a little more info, I'm not sure how I missed all these answers until now.

 

 

Knowing that the goal is closer to 200 degree is to me a big tell that they aren't being pushed hard enough to heat up properly.

 

Pressure will tell you that.  well...pressure GROWTH, anyway.   I don't drive SCCA / Hoho's...but,as I understand hot pressures are roughly similar.  I'd be aiming for 36 (+/- 1 psi depending on the track, the corner of the car, setup, and track conditions) psi hot, and 6-9 psi of growth.  So, a cold pressure of 27-30 psi.    If you can't get 6psi of growth, ether the tires are DONE, or grandma needs to pick up the pace.  

 

If your friend went out at 33 psi and came in at 36 psi (from a hot lap)...I get more growth than that in the rain.  

My primary thought as a fellow midpack driver a little closer to the front...

Until you have maximized the data from tire PRESSURE... Temps (esp. Out, mid, in) are silly. As Steve pointed out "temps" require real hot measures,as quick as you can get off track...not AFTER the checker and a cooldown. You have to come in under green from a hot lap.

Also as Steve noted... Those temps are way too cold. You should me closer to 200. If your not at 200 or close the data is useless.

What is a "whiepages"?    

$99 paint job? I'm envisioning staying in the car as it rolls through a car wash with paint then a dryer

 

If they could fit that into a hauler and bring it to the track, along with a vinyl cutter....now we're talkin!!!  

DIY Paint isn't that hard to do...esp for a 50/50 job.  I wouldn't get a cheap HF gun, though.  I looked at them....but, I ended up getting a Devilbis gun for not that much more than the HF options.  Of course you'll need a few extra bits besides just a gun: gun stand, dryers, filters, mixing pots, pressure regulator, fittings, spare nozzles, etc.  I was probably all-in for $300 or so?  

 

The biggest thing to get used to is the speed at which the paint goes down.  Get some cheap paint and practice arm movements on something.  Get good lights, and a light on a stand that you can reposition to help see reflections when spraying.  

Here is my cousin's channel:
https://www.youtube....J7jo3UvanlwIO8g

Here is his website if you want to buy some tunes or explore:
https://www.mangroverock.com/

Ha! That's way cool. Rockin' beard.

For a more laid back vibe....My wife and I first saw Susan Tedeschi back in 1998 or so, when we lived in Colorado.  We saw here at a movie theater turned into an SRO micro-concert hall.  No chairs, stadium..nuttin. Just a stage, an open floor and a bar in the back.  

 

Finally, I spent my youth as a drummer.  In the 70s and 80s that wasn't possible without being a Rush (Neal Peart) fan:

 

 

And...just for fun....here I am in all my coolness...back in the day:

 

Hmm....the first music my parents didn't "get":

 

 

 

Then there was my first (of many) Pink Floyd Album:

 

WOW - I just read the thread, that was crazy!

There may have been a second side-thread where the CV joints were discussed in more detail.  I'm not sure.  

 

But....yeah.  

Now this I would like to hear about, thread link?

Search for nasa Cota Champs.

 

So the next question up for debate is why is Tom Hampton such a twit? Chimes in on everything but doesn't lend anything to the conversation except trolling. I guess that is a safe position for an engineer that can't risk being wrong in anything lest it fall apart underneath him.

 

Lol.  

 

Says the person who claimed that the rule changed recently (and is different in NASA), and literally said  "I AM CORRECT"...on a rule that hasn't changed in AGES and is identical between organizations.  Is that a raven in your avatar or a Crow?  

 

As an engineer for the better part of 30 years, I've been wrong LOADS of times---but, I try not to make a habit of it.  I especially try not to be wrong the same way more than once.  

 

As for being a twit...I don't know what to say, I guess I underperformed.  I usually try to be more of an asshole.  

I'm late to this party I went back and read this again.  This rule was written early on in my CRB tenor.  It is exactly as Steve has been describing.. Whoever said this to Jamz, whether it be SCCA or NASA was wrong in their interpretation. 

 

 

 

Maybe it was the same person who created CV-joint-gate.

Thats correct

 

Don't tell Jamz.  

Lot's of good advice here and at least one person has 'been there done that' and likely had a similar issue.  I am still running the Bilsteins and not made the switch as of yet.  When I say perhaps the subframe shifted, I am thinking the lower attachment points where the cams attach was pushed over leaving the tops in place, unlikely but possible.

 

 

Yep. It is possible.  I have a rear subframe like this, on my garage floor right now.  Left side lower mounts moved inboard, rights moved outboard...probably from left-side impact with a K-wall.  It took a little while to figure out what was wrong with it...because the AA checker said everything was "good".  

I tend to rethink and recalibrate a few times in cases like this. I need to do that elsewhere then paste it in.

 

Bah!  Its the silly season.  It's kinda sad that this is the most controversial rules discussion we can come up with.  

I can see Steve posting....seems to be rather lengthy....or he's a VERY SLOW typist.    :-)

Thanks for posting yet another copy of the same rules that Steve already posted---Which are (in this case) identical between 2019, and 2020...as opposed to your claim that they "changed this year" (except the tire wording---which is not relevant).  

 

17.1 Any fifteen (15.00) inch diameter rim/wheel with a maximum width of seven (7.00) inches, and a

minimum weight of thirteen (13.00) pounds, may be used. All four (4) rims must dimensionally match.
Other than the stock fifteen (15) inch Mazda steel wheels, all wheels must be one piece. (i.e. No multi
piece bolted, riveted, or welded wheels).

...

17.3.3 Aftermarket wheel studs, lug nuts, and wheel spacers are permitted. If spacers are used they

shall be no greater than 13mm in total and equal per axle.

 

It does not say EQUAL PER CORNER or ALL CORNERS MUST BE IDENTICAL.  It says all Wheels must be dimensionally identical...spacers must be identical per axle.

 

A point that Steve already made.  You are certainly earning your "broken record" badge today.  

What ride height?  Also, are you using stock cam bolts?  The Advanced Auto cam bolts have less "slop" between the cam and the "horseshoe", and thus are more "optimized stock".  

 

Also, are you sure you checked the subframe correctly?  I remember when I first got them, it wasn't clear exactly where you were supposed to index the tips to on the subframe.  

 

Third...I have a subframe that is actually shifted left-to-right.  Ie, it passes the subframe checker test because the horseshoe's are the correct distance apart.  But, the entire subframe is "out of square"---the left side bent in, and the right side bent out.  You can check this using a tape measure and checking top-left/bottom-right (and vice-versa) diagonals across the corners of the subframe. Its tricky because you have to pick a symmetrical reference point that you can reliably measure from accurate to less than 1/8".   

 

I've only done this with a rear subframe while it was out of the car.  Not sure if its possible on a front subframe...but, (even if it is) I'm sure it would have to be off the car.

I didn't do the floor drop, but I also removed the trans tunnel heat shield.  That said, I did line the outside of the trans tunnel with ceramic heat insulating cloth.  Like this:

 

https://www.pegasusa...sp?Product=1828

 

Its probably not vital in that area, and may depend on how close your seat is to the tunnel.  However, the footbox by the gas-pedal is more important...which I also lined on the outside with the same stuff (actually a double layer).  That can get very hot at the end of a long summer race, where your foot and shin rest against the tunnel.  

keeping the electric adjust would be helpful in my opinion.  Kinda wish my car had it.  They are always going out of alignment from me and others bumping them in the pits when walking by.

 

And incidental door-2-door contact.  :-)

 

Heck I jjjjuuuuuusssst barely scraped a wall one time.  Only mark was a quarter sized spot of paint rubbed off the drivers mirror.  Well, that and the mirror was misaligned for the rest of the race---since my 1990 was a very low-cost version.  No power anything.