38 replies to this topic

[Tom Hampton]

I don't recall a single car at any texas race this year being driven to the track. YMMV

Ok. I didn't think the discussion was about driving to races. Jim boemler has driven to races for years. Not Texas races, i know.

There is also a guy at Cresson who races a bmw, and drives to the track with a tire trailer, races included.

The satement was regarding keeping the car street legal, in general.

The Texas safety inspection doesn't require dot sestbelts. Airbags are not required. So, it really very easy to keep the stickers active. It doesn't cost much, and I can drive it in the street if I need or want to.

I have no intention to drive to the track for races, due to the obvious risks of being stranded and forcing others to be inconvenienced.

[Ken Wilkinson]

MIne is still street legal (except that I have no cat, the horn is no longer hooked up, and my tires are lower than the DOT limit, I removed the OEM seatbelts, I removed the air bags).

ITA 1995 Miata with tags and registration.

You better stay north of the Potomac because VA State Police will have dollar signs in their eyes if they see you!

[AW33COM]

I bought the parts JayF suggested in the beginning of the thread, and I checked out the seat at NHMS over the weekend. It seems I will have to cut the tunnel no matter what.

The bad news is, I was approved for racing, but the seat turned out to be on backorder. This will put me off for 2 months.
If you guys have that same seat for sale, please let me know.

[AW33COM]

OK. The seat came in and I had to cut out a lot of tunnel in order to make this seat fit.
It looks like no matter what size you are the seat will not fit correctly until you cut the tunnel. Unless you want the seat to be off center and sideways.

I have few questions that just came up:

1. Someone said this in the beginning:

To get it to fit and get it low you will need to cut out or grind of the rear factory seat humps.

Are you talking about the same seat. My seat is flat. There is nothing there to grind.

2. Floor bracket from AWR racing. Is this bracket required? I have no idea how to connect the bracket to the seat. My seat does not look like you can put any bolt into it from the bottom. Aren't VAC motorsports brackets (side mounted) the only brackets I need?

3. The seat looks good and safe, but god damn it, how do you get out of the car? I'm 5'8" and slim, but it's already hard to get out and the door is not even connected.

Other than that it's going good.

[Keith Novak]

OK. The seat came in and I had to cut out a lot of tunnel in order to make this seat fit.
It looks like no matter what size you are the seat will not fit correctly until you cut the tunnel. Unless you want the seat to be off center and sideways.

I have few questions that just came up:

1. Someone said this in the beginning: Are you talking about the same seat. My seat is flat. There is nothing there to grind.

2. Floor bracket from AWR racing. Is this bracket required? I have no idea how to connect the bracket to the seat. My seat does not look like you can put any bolt into it from the bottom. Aren't VAC motorsports brackets (side mounted) the only brackets I need?

3. The seat looks good and safe, but god damn it, how do you get out of the car? I'm 5'8" and slim, but it's already hard to get out and the door is not even connected.

Other than that it's going good.

(damn computer ate my post)

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

1. The rear factory humps they are referring to are the ones on the floor pan of the car that were used to mount the stock seat. You are correct there are no humps on your new seat.
2. I would recommend some type of reinforcement, but I would imagine that a set of large washers under the car would be sufficient. I don't mean fender washers either, get the thick ones.
3. I am 6'5" so I can't really help you there, there is plenty of room to get out of my seat.

[Chris Windsor]

OK. The seat came in and I had to cut out a lot of tunnel in order to make this seat fit.
It looks like no matter what size you are the seat will not fit correctly until you cut the tunnel. Unless you want the seat to be off center and sideways.

I have few questions that just came up:

1. Someone said this in the beginning: Are you talking about the same seat. My seat is flat. There is nothing there to grind.

2. Floor bracket from AWR racing. Is this bracket required? I have no idea how to connect the bracket to the seat. My seat does not look like you can put any bolt into it from the bottom. Aren't VAC motorsports brackets (side mounted) the only brackets I need?

3. The seat looks good and safe, but god damn it, how do you get out of the car? I'm 5'8" and slim, but it's already hard to get out and the door is not even connected.

Other than that it's going good.

We have mounted plenty of these seats, all you need to do is massage the tunnel a bit for the right front corner of the seat, we have manufactured custom side mount brackets found here in the classifieds as seen in the picture, they are adjustable for height, recline, and distance. These also extend past the rear factory mounts so you and leave them if you want.
I hope this helps.

[Danny Steyn]

Schabi

I am sure you are considering the bracing on the underside of the floor. I had the normal extra braces under the floor, and had exprienced several crashes and everything seemed rigid, but all the impacts were in the forward direction. Of course in forward impacts the direction the driver momentum is restrained by the rear seat mounts and seat belts securing to the roll bar so it seems logical that everything was working well

Then in 2008 I had a really bad rear end impact at Mid Ohio going straight into a crocrete wall backwards. The impact was so severe that that the rearward momentum pulled up the entire floor, braces and all, under the sear and my helmet broke the roof. I suffered with severe headaches for more than a week after that crash.

Since then we have made significant improvements to our underfloor bracing.

Just an FYI

[AW33COM]

 oo.jpg   103.19KB   29 downloads  o.jpg   48.68KB   24 downloads  o.jpg   48.68KB   24 downloads

Then in 2008 I had a really bad rear end impact at Mid Ohio going straight into a crocrete wall backwards. The impact was so severe that that the rearward momentum pulled up the entire floor, braces and all, under the sear and my helmet broke the roof. I suffered with severe headaches for more than a week after that crash.

Very interesting. I just came back from the store where I bought metal sheets that I'm going to use for brackets and tunnel fabrication. To be honest I would like to "double" the floor by adding one big plate of 16g metal from under the car (the plate would cover the entire seat area), but I'm not sure if it's legal to do that. The big washers alone are not enough for me in terms of safety.

[AW33COM]

My first fabrication above.

[AW33COM]

I managed to fit that seat in there. Holly macaroni. That seat is as big as the Miata. I do not think anyone that is 6'2" will be able to race a Miata with that seat and have the seat aligned.

No BFH will help. You need to cut as much as I did in order to have the seat in the middle of the steering wheel, and parallel with the car.
Even with this big cut there will be problems, because the seat has an edge on the front right bottom. One may need to shave the edge from the seat in order to make it fit better if the cut is not deep enough.

Going back to the seat itself. It has at least 3 problems:

1. The seat is to wide in the hip area. (What is wrong with having sizes for race seats? Do they all have to be the same size? Maybe I should start a race seat company).
2. You can not see anything in the right mirror unless you are about 5' 5". At that height you will be able to see between head and shoulder support.
3. It seems hard. How come racing seats are not comfortable? It would absorb minor impacts and small movements/hits.

After installing this seat in my car all by myself (fabrication, welding, etc) I have to say I would not do this job for anybody else.
It would have to be at least $2000. That's how painful it was.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

I managed to fit that seat in there. Holly macaroni. That seat is as big as the Miata. I do not think anyone that is 6'2" will be able to race a Miata with that seat and have the seat aligned.

No one is listening but I am telling you... I am 6'5" and you CAN get this seat installed for tall guys. I have a 36" inseam so my height is split fairly evenly between torso and legs. You need to think through things before you do it, starting with the cage, but it is definitely doable, without messing with the floor pan.

[AW33COM]

BrianW, I do believe one can fit an elephant in there, but god dam it, will it be set up correctly?
Also, without messing with the floor the seat does not sit on the floor, so it's not optimal to me.

The prior car owner built the cage according to his body, and the seat he used was a regular aluminum seat. Still it was not set up perfectly.
I do agree with you, every 1/16th has to be thought through in order to be able to set this up. Try it by all means.

Do not want to argue about this, because I'm new and I have see very little cages in my life. What do I know? I'm only speaking from my cage point of view.
I'm happy I did it, but SPARCO should try to fit one of those seats into the Miata and learn how to improve seats.

[JayF]

Keep in mind that you were adding the seat after the cage was built, if you were building the cage around the seat there would be more clearance on the outside and it would be easier. I had no issues putting my Circuit Pro in my Sm and when I had my cage done I gave the builder the seat. He adjusted and put the bars in around the clearance needed for the seat.

[Tom Hampton]

Keep in mind that you were adding the seat after the cage was built, if you were building the cage around the seat there would be more clearance on the outside and it would be easier. I had no issues putting my Circuit Pro in my Sm and when I had my cage done I gave the builder the seat. He adjusted and put the bars in around the clearance needed for the seat.

+1

This is mandatory for any halo seat. I spent a great deal of time fitting the seat, and the cage landing around the halo, and shoulder wings. Only then did I determine I needed to notch the tunnel. My seat (U/S VS Halo) is about the same width as the ProADV and my notch is considerably smaller than yours. I could have gotten away with just the BFH approach. I only notched the tunnel to improve helmet to cage clearance. Alignment with the steering wheel was satisfactory without the notch.

I've been told most builders charge a premium to install a halo seat, even when they've done it 100 times before.

More pictures of your install with the seat and cage in-view would have helped us guide you better. The tunnel narrows as you move forward. I wonder if your fitment was actually made MORE difficult because of your shorter legs....causing you to move the seat forward and interfere more with the tunnel. I would THINK that at 5' 8" (30" inseem??? that puts the seat 4"-ish forward of brianW) the main hoop would not have been a factor...but, can't tell without pictures of the cage+seat...with roof removed.

[AW33COM]

I may know very little about building race cars, and racing in general, but I'm rarely wrong. The seat is 20" wide up front. The floor pan is 15" wide from the left beam/frame to the start of the tunnel. The length from the center of the steering wheel to the left beam/frame is 11".

Looking at the numbers I gave you tell me how you installed your PRO ADV seat in the center of the steering wheel without cutting the tunnel. And it does not matter how you build your cage. You can put your main hoop in the trunk and it won't matter. Numbers do not lie. Please measure the width of your seat just to make sure we are talking about the same seat. My car is 1990 just to be exact.

I cut the tunnel 4" + to the right and my floor pan became 19". That sort of centered the seat, but anybody with at least one eye will tell you it is not 100% perfect. Not trying to be mean here, but I do not want to misinform anybody that wants to install this seat.

Centering the seat without cutting the tunnel is only possible if you race without the top, your seat sits on the tunnel and your head sticks up 10" above the roof.

[HoneyBadger - BrianW]

I may know very little about building race cars, and racing in general, but I'm rarely wrong.

People are taking time out of their lives to help you and you come back with this ^^^.

Whatever...

[JayF]

My thoughts exactly Brian. Nothing more needs to be said here

[dstevens]

Schabi, the best advice is to search the old site for posts from the guys that have built perhaps the majority of the cars. Guys like Drago, DaveW, Meathead, Marc C, Fowler as well as several others. The biggest thing with the cockpit is getting the seat and cage right. In a larger car it's not so critical. But in the little chick car it is. Just moving things an inch or so one way can make a big difference. Because the cage is already in, with a different seat originally, chances are you can't see it. Plenty of guys are 6-4/6-5 in the car. I'm about 6-4 and not quite as aerodynamic as I should be and I've been made to fit in my car. At first I thought I was being cramped by the cage but after thinking about it for a while and working in the shop, the thing that was making me feel cramped was the car itself, not really the seat of cockpit. It's not a big car but it can be made to fit with a good design and a minimal of structural "improvements".