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Runoffs Drivers at the ARRC by GRM?

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#41
Blake Clements

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He is wondering is we will have an Arrc SMO ( spec miata oval) championship race as well on Saturday night.

Butch
So what do you think about my idea?
SM open for all legal SM cars (open Champion)
SM2 open for all legal SM cars with Regional drivers (regional champion)

All run together

Jim


In for SM2 since I didn't run Runoffs :)

Kinda seems like the same rules, only modified to accommodate those who run the Runoffs......

Blake Clements

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#42
chris haldeman

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Im in for the oval saturday night."bat shit crazy" thats how i roll :D
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#43
Butch Kummer

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SM - all Spec Miatas, National races tire rule, Runoffs or no Runoffs makes no difference
SM2 - '97 & earlier, National races tire rule, not a Runoffs class so open to all drivers even last year
SSM - DC Region SSM rules, again not a Runoffs class so open to all drivers even last year

No split starts for anyone.

Unless you have a '99 you can run SM or SM2 at your choice. We invented SM2 because a group of drivers chose to park their cars instead of spending the time & money necessary to make them competitive against the 99s. Could a well-driven, well-prepped NA enter in SM2 and take overall? Sure could, and that would be a serious data point in "proving" there's parity in the rules as written. Will us having the SM2 class bring more cars to the dance? I think it will give the mid-pack NA guys something to race for, so I'm thinking the answer is "yes".

Not debating SM2, and I'm no longer debating allowing Runoffs drivers in SM. They are in.

"If you want to be the best you need to beat the best."

Oh - and Lanier is apparently having financial issues and they cancelled their weekly program starting around the first of May. If someone wants to coordinate that effort you're welcome to do so.

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#44
Blake Clements

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I thought SM2 was eligible to 94-97 1.8 cars last year as well. Otherwise - why do we need SM2 and SSM?

Blake Clements

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#45
Butch Kummer

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We invented SM2 as an Atlanta Region class last year at the request of some '97 & earlier owners who felt they were not competitive against the later cars. It was debated heavily back on SpecMiata.com and I'm not going to open that door again.

For awhile we had two versions of SSM - the NASA version headed up by Jason Holland and the DC Region version. There were some differences between the two but both versions are much more restricted than the SM rules.

We've had minimal participation by the NASA guys and now that Jason is pursuing other options the NASA version is on life support if not dead. The DC version is very much alive and well, however (often outnumbering SM at MARRS events), and as long as 5-10 of those guys continue to show up for the ARRC (we've averaged 7.0 over the last three years) I have no problem giving them their own class.

Thus ends today's history lesson on SM2 and SSM... :P

Butch Kummer

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#46
Blake Clements

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Butch,
I am not debating SM2 for a class - but I am asking you to clarify where you say SM2 is a 1.6 only class. The ARRC Website (seemingly from 2010) lists SM2 as :

---
SM2
SM2 is an Atlanta Region regional-only class for all 1990 through 1997 Mazda Miatas that comply with SCCA GCR and category specifications for Spec Miata (SM). The SM2 tire rule is the same tire as listed in the GCR (with any amendments in Fastrack) for the Spec Miata National race class.
----

where 90-93 cars are NA 1.6L and 94-94 cars are NA 1.8L.

Thanks,
Blake

We invented SM2 as an Atlanta Region class last year at the request of some 1.6 owners who felt they were not competitive against the later cars. It was debated heavily back on SpecMiata.com and I'm not going to open that door again.

For awhile we had two versions of SSM - the NASA version headed up by Jason Holland and the DC Region version. There were some differences between the two but both versions are much more restricted than the SM rules.

We've had minimal participation by the NASA guys and now that Jason is pursuing other options the NASA version is on life support if not dead. The DC version is very much alive and well, however (often outnumbering SM at MARRS events), and as long as 5-10 of those guys continue to show up for the ARRC (we've averaged 7.0 over the last three years) I have no problem giving them their own class.

Thus ends today's history lesson on SM2 and SSM... :P


Blake Clements

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#47
Butch Kummer

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Butch,
I am not debating SM2 for a class - but I am asking you to clarify where you say SM2 is a 1.6 only class. The ARRC Website (seemingly from 2010) lists SM2 as :

---
SM2
SM2 is an Atlanta Region regional-only class for all 1990 through 1997 Mazda Miatas that comply with SCCA GCR and category specifications for Spec Miata (SM). The SM2 tire rule is the same tire as listed in the GCR (with any amendments in Fastrack) for the Spec Miata National race class.
----

where 90-93 cars are NA 1.6L and 94-94 cars are NA 1.8L.

Thanks,
Blake


Damn - I hate it when that happens! Blake is correct and I will edit my prior posts to reflect the proper rules. SM2 is for '97 & earlier cars, not just the 1.6 cars.

BK

Butch Kummer

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#48
High Chair

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Butch - Lots of really fast east coasters dont have the money, time or inclination to spend 7-10 days at Elkhart lake, but a 3-day ARRC weekend makes a lot of sense

And from what I know of all my fellow competitors, we all want to win against the best. Jamie drove an excellent race and won last years SM. His race win meant way more to him than my ARRC SMX win meant to me - mine was a hollow victory (but I'll take it)

Knowing Jamie, I am sure that Jamie would have preferred to win against me, Charbs, Chip, Drago and all the others that would come to the ARRC to run in teh best event in the SE but some of the National front runners were precluded from racing becuase of this rule.

If you allow them all to run, then I seriouslky beleive you could have an EVEN stronger field at the ARRC than at the Runoffs !!!!

I say let em ALL run

In this economy I would be chasing the biggest field possible - not chasing them away !


Danny has me pegged! I am going to the ARRC to try to defend last years win and I hope all of the runoff drivers/cars are there. If I finish on the podium because a runoffs driver was not able to keep his/her finishing position then I would be happy to give up my trophy. Although winning the ARRC in 2010 was an accomplishment (beating Cliff Brown and others is never easy)I feel finishing 2nd at the last National there was a lot more difficult. The Arrc is a fantastic race and it should be a showcase for the best that SM has to offer IMHO. I know for sure that most of the runoffs drivers from the SE would attend the ARRC if they were allowed just to enjoy the competition.
JT
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#49
Brian Laughlin

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I think the way the ARRC is set up is fine. It gives regional guys, who you could say might be a little less expirenced? that's not a dis on regional racers, I am one making the step into nationals, but it gives them something to shoot for. It's my opinion you can't make both sides 100% satisfied either way. Happy medium would be the best here.

The ARRC is a GREAT event, the bottom line in my book, whatever needs to be done to get more people there, make the changes nessicary
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#50
Alex Bolanos

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Danny has me pegged! I am going to the ARRC to try to defend last years win and I hope all of the runoff drivers/cars are there.
JT


I'll be there if they let me and I'm comin' for you knuckles ;)

Remove the restriction, who wants to win against a restricted field?

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