187 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

Good god, they might have to buy a second set of wheels. That's a disaster!

[dmathias]

?

[fishguyaz]

Why? Is that it? Toyo's or go home? It sure would be nice if the SCCA and NASA made it easier to race both series. Doubling a tire budget to race both series is a bit much. That stance will definitely differentiate your product.

I believe that what i made in bold is the end goal.
i watched last year as nasa did not follow scca, or scca didnt follow nasa........whatever.
all i know is that this further makes it like when i raced spec 944 here in AZ.
there were 2 different sets of rules for the class in each club.
close but not the same. it made it where i had to basically choose which club to run, and build my car to that rules set.
I made my choice an ran with one club. i eventually just said the hell with this, and sold the car.


when i saw that scca went with hoosier for 2012, i jokingly thought to myself that i should place a bet that nasa keeps the toyo.
when one pays attention its easy to see new patterns develop.

at least i will have a market to sell my new toyos that i just bought.


in many business models being different is a good thing; in a spec class even though they are competing for(our) business i dont think its a good thing.

doesnt really matter since i have already made my choice from the last divergence in rules with weights and RP sizes; this just makes it a more solid decision to CHOOSE which club i will be racing with this season.

I just dont see how this is good for the racers, or the clubs for that matter.

[fishguyaz]

Good god, they might have to buy a second set of wheels. That's a disaster!

rob,
its not having to buy another set of wheels that is the issue, it is the trend of rules divergence in the one club, and the other private business.

this trend that i see is that if you race nasa, and i race scca, one of us needs to do enough tinkering with the car to simply run with a different group that it makes (me) wonder if its really worth it to do so.
I had decided last year that it was not worth it, so i didnt do any nasa races.
this tire divergence just strengthens my reasoning for choosing one club to run with. when racers start making choices like this both clubs and racers in both clubs are the ones who loose( in the big picture).
yeah in the smaller picture one club gets to stick it to the other and test their ideas; this means that the racers in both clubs lose.


now i am just waiting to read what is the next divergence, which is why i have decided to focus on just one club.
i saw this in spec 944 here in AZ with nasa and scca so its not surprising to me. the simply solution was to just choose the club, and max your car out under those rules.


thanks

[Jim Drago]

I got a call from Hoosier today and they already have a page in the works for SM.It answers many of the questions raised above. they asked for a few suggestions and will be getting it out for us in the near future. It will also be posted here.

Also as far as the Hoosier tire, the questionnaire that went out asked many of these questions, the decision was made from the input received. Hopefully most of you that are now concerned with crossover etc. spent the time and effort to fill it out and submit it.


Jim

[Jim Boemler]

It's probably been a while, but I don't recall seeing a questionnaire -- who did it go to, and when?

[Bruce Wilson]

The survey went out early February. There were several posts on the topic when it did. I can't remember if it was discussed on the other forum.

-bw

[Rob Burgoon]

Jim, it's been a long time since the survey went out. 6 months or so.

Josh, if NASA is under contract, they are under contract. What are the major differences between NASA and SCCA SM this year, besides weight and plate? Are you seriously complaining about not having a shimmed steering rack? Wanting to remove your side mirrors for nasa?

[Cnj]

This whole Hoosier deal is a conspiracy led by Drago in an effort to boost forum traffic. Now we get 6 months (at least) of posts on tire pressures (high, low or staggered); whether fresh tires are faster than 4 cycle tires; apocryphal stories of the fast guys ordering shaved Hoosiers; and at least half of us pining loudly for the old days. Most of the info will be wrong (till we all figure it out), some of it will be right (but we won't be able to differentiate) and quite a lot will be deliberate misinformation (from the figure it out yourself camp).

Cnj

[James York]

This whole Hoosier deal is a conspiracy led by Drago in an effort to boost forum traffic. Now we get 6 months (at least) of posts on tire pressures (high, low or staggered); whether fresh tires are faster than 4 cycle tires; apocryphal stories of the fast guys ordering shaved Hoosiers; and at least half of us pining loudly for the old days. Most of the info will be wrong (till we all figure it out), some of it will be right (but we won't be able to differentiate) and quite a lot will be deliberate misinformation (from the figure it out yourself camp).

Cnj

That I can believe.

You in or out next year Craig? Showing up once in a while like some celebrity driver when the weather is good isn't going to cut it.

[Keith Andrews]

I believe that what i made in bold is the end goal.

I just dont see how this is good for the racers, or the clubs for that matter.

I completely agree.

[Richter Racing]

I got a call from Hoosier today and they already have a page in the works for SM.It answers many of the questions raised above. they asked for a few suggestions and will be getting it out for us in the near future. It will also be posted here.


Jim

In reading the Hoosier website they say; "Cure" Time

After completing the initial run phase, the length of time the tire is allowed to set is possibly more important. The barest minimum for this process to be beneficial is 24 hours. (Not "the next day"). Any less than this is a waste of time. The best situation would allow a week before using the tire again.

I'm wondering if this is true or if anyone has found any different results.

[fishguyaz]

Josh, if NASA is under contract, they are under contract. What are the major differences between NASA and SCCA SM this year, besides weight and plate? Are you seriously complaining about not having a shimmed steering rack? Wanting to remove your side mirrors for nasa?

rob,
I agree about being under contract; perhaps then scca could have made this change next year when nasas' contract with toyo ended.

I am not complaining about shims, or mirrors or any other bullshit.
what i am complaining about is that i think its in the best interest of the car owners/drivers to have a set of rules for SM that nasa AND scca can agree on.


as i said i already lived this same scenario with spec 944 in az.
nasa and scca had different rules for the same car; it ended up being a rules wrestling match between the 2 clubs and was a fight of egos; i was basically forced to choose which club to run, unless of course i was ok with swapping crap like flywheels and headers to run with the other club AND have a chance to compete.
i see this starting to go in the same direction, thats all i am complaining about because i dont see how this is good for me and you, the driver.

luckily for my I own and race a FF also, so I have choices others may not have.

carry on

[Johnny D]

In reading the Hoosier website they say; "Cure" Time

After completing the initial run phase, the length of time the tire is allowed to set is possibly more important. The barest minimum for this process to be beneficial is 24 hours. (Not "the next day"). Any less than this is a waste of time. The best situation would allow a week before using the tire again.

I'm wondering if this is true or if anyone has found any different results.

I'm not going to run Nationals but if I did, I'd sure like this at our local shop.
http://www.tirerack....e.jsp?techid=66

Is someone going to start a DIY thread on how to make one?

J~

[Charlie Hayes]

You can pay me $40 a set and I will cycle your tires.

[Johnny D]

I was thinking theres's $ to be made.
Go to a national event with a little trailer.
Work all Thurday night, sleep all day.

Ops, I think SCCA wanted people coming to the track to race, not sell Heat cycled tires, sorry.
J~

[Tyler Raatz]

In reading the Hoosier website they say; "Cure" Time

After completing the initial run phase, the length of time the tire is allowed to set is possibly more important. The barest minimum for this process to be beneficial is 24 hours. (Not "the next day"). Any less than this is a waste of time. The best situation would allow a week before using the tire again.

I'm wondering if this is true or if anyone has found any different results.

I have found my properly cycled tires last 3-4x longer in tread wear over non cycled tires. The cycled tires also stay fast through the entire life of the tire. Non cycled tires will see 4-5 fast heat cycles and then become very greasy and wear very fast. I also feel that the 24 hr cure time is not enough, We typically scub tires at the start of a race weekend and dont use them again until the following race weekend. 6 properly cured SM6's lasted the entire 13hr at VIR last year on our ITA winning miata, I ran 4 of those tires this year 2 more races and they were still fast.

[Brian Ghidinelli]

I have found my properly cycled tires last 3-4x longer in tread wear over non cycled tires. The cycled tires also stay fast through the entire life of the tire. Non cycled tires will see 4-5 fast heat cycles and then become very greasy and wear very fast. I also feel that the 24 hr cure time is not enough, We typically scub tires at the start of a race weekend and dont use them again until the following race weekend. 6 properly cured SM6's lasted the entire 13hr at VIR last year on our ITA winning miata, I ran 4 of those tires this year 2 more races and they were still fast.

Sweet, now I can include in my budget a day away from work, diesel to trailer the car to the track, entry fees, consumables and a big tire order purchase plus mounting/unmounting so I can cycle all of my tires! I can do a few sets of Carbotechs while I'm at it... can't wait.

[Rob Burgoon]

Call the whaaaambulance and then order some wheels. You'll live I think.

[Charlie Hayes]

Brian think of it as a two for one, just don't read the fine print.