136 replies to this topic

[Dudley]

this has been very entertaining reading. but i have to say that jim's suggestion makes the most sense to me. since jim and i have talked about this senerio in the past. really those that want to run out their ra1's, great do so in regionals. if you intended to run for points you would be investing in new tires anyway. for those of us that are going run the best that we can, let us decide what tires we choose to. the bottom line is this is a sport and we are out to have fun. lets live up to our clubs name "sports". lets all have a good year racing.

[William Bonsell]

Hey Dudley...hope you are feeling well. So is Oregon then going to allow Hoosiers and/or Toyos RA-1's for the entire 2012 season then? Hope to do a bit more SCCA racing this year...as will my son when he get up here from NORCAL...

Bill-

[Randy Thieme]

I believe R-888, RA-1 and Hoosiers are all allowed and all season. And no restrictions on which model for dries or wets. Mix and match as you please.

[William Bonsell]

Thanks Randy...so this is the issue for those a bit financially challenged. If your weather prediction is correct, then I just need a set of SM6's and shave my RA-1 intermediates to 2/32nds. Or buy a set of H2O's and live off the 2 or 3 sets of still serviceable RA-1's knowing as I am hustling trying to get into the 33's, the front runners will now be down in the 29's for sure if not the 28's on new Hoosiers.What I hope not to have to do is pickup 2 sets of Hoosiers right now. I presume that once on Hoosiers, it will be difficult to slap on some Toyos. With the field split as to tire, the gaps will just widen. Should be interesting to say the least. Will run more SCCA this year if the SCCA events at the Ridge come to fruition. The good thing is we have several months in order to figure out ultimately how to handle tire issues.

[john mueller]

FYI, From what I've heard...
Nitto are RA1's compound with a differnt tread pattern sold under Nitto, not Toyo.
J~

MINI-HIJACK
The Nitto NT01's might be the same compound but they have more grip than RA1... I suspect different construction in addition to tread pattern. I've run then a few times in enduros and I really like them.

[Jim Weidenbaum]

I haven't checked in on this important topic, as my personal opinion isn't driving the decision for the Oregon Region -- you are. I just want to let you know that as Road Racing Director I am working with Bruce on as much of a consensus basis as possible. Clearly our 2012 Oregon Region rules are intended to allow folks to use up their Toyos and defer buying new tires as long as lap times/wallets will withstand.

I will echo the point others have made here: push comes to shove ( "incidental contact??") the front runners are going to do what it takes to shave (that is a pun) time as 10ths of a second matter. When you are 2 or more seconds a lap behind the pole position, then it's generally more about smiles per miles ... and running fresh rubber makes little financial sense.

Once we get through 2012, I'll listen to what the group wants to do for 2013 in regards to switching entirely to Hoosiers or having a Regional alternate tire.

Jim Weidenbaum

[William Bonsell]

Are the decision makers within the Oregon region aware of the AIM Toyo contingency program which can put awards into the hands of racers in 2012? This contingency program was the prime motivator for SCCA SFR spec'ing the Toyo for regional events instead of allowing BOTH Toyo and Hoosier. Were SCCA Oregon to spec Toyo regionally, this would trickle down to not only SCCA NWR but also ICSCC (Conference). I guess in the past all Toyo money went back to National and never trickled down to the club racers...this according to Ron at AIM in Sonoma.

Whether you race SCCA, Conference or both...it would appear there might be a benefit to spec Toyo regionally and leave the Hoosiers for the national guys. As I understand it, regardless of where you finish, you have an opportunity to get something!

Bill-

[William Bonsell]

And as a follow up, I went back and read some of the prior posts on this thread. There was a post from Ken referencing the SFR deal with AIM and Toyo and that it was not available up here. Well, after talking with Ron from AIM today, I think it is available up here. Does this change what we might want to do with respect to a Toyo regional tire spec vs both Toyo and Hoosier (which will negate the contingency available?

If there is in fact opportunity for a AIM/Toyo contingency by spec'ing Toyo for SM then I would be in favor of Toyo only for regional racing. As this would then make contingency $$ available within SCCA Oregon, SCCA NWR and Conference.

Bill-

[BrianPDX]

Bill,

There was a vote conducted via email in Oct or November, and the decision was made based on that vote. I believe Bruce took the vote, so he can chime in. Based on that outcome, I believe several of us have already made tire purchases so going back to toyo only for regionals would hurt.

[William Bonsell]

Bill,

There was a vote conducted via email in Oct or November, and the decision was made based on that vote. I believe Bruce took the vote, so he can chime in. Based on that outcome, I believe several of us have already made tire purchases so going back to toyo only for regionals would hurt.

Must have missed that email vote (but then I don't do as much SCCA racing as others), but just curious if the AIM Toyo contingency would have had an effect on the vote as I think a great many of us would have been satisfied to have a Toyo spec'd tire for regionals given current tires in the trailer as well as the contingency awards which apparently were not discussed or confirmed back when the vote was taken. At least I did not read any posts suggesting at that time the contingency being available. Certainly can appreciate that many have secured Hoosiers by now...in fact I have a set ready for pickup in Portland.

Bill-

Bill-

[Terrell Garrett]

Last race last fall I ran on crap rather than buying new RA-1's because of the rule change. Picking up my Hoosiers tomorrow. If they are not allowed I will just get disqualified. As far as I am concerned, this year's rule accomodates everyone and even Randy is moving up to Hoosiers. I know this because he gave all his old, rock hard 888's to my kid. Some will go for boat anchors and some she will use up completely.

Let's move on to other more fun subjects like massive trash talking and open challenges. Better yet, let's start a "Dear Jim," column devoted to trackside manners, how to secure the best parking spots at Rose Cup, fashion tips on color coordinating our cars and clothing, etc. I'll start with the first letter:

Dear Jim,

Why do we park as two separate camps at every race? Personally, I don't understand it as everybody seems to pretty much like each other. Does this have something to do with how the old-time wrestlers used to show up in town in a van together dropping off a guy at each corner so they could come to the arena from different directions looking tough and acting like they didn't just share the ride to town?

Also, do you have any tips on car and suit color combinations or perhaps flower decorations for our trailers?

Confused

[Randy Thieme]

Don't forget the RA-1's I gave you. Given the Miata is a chick car color-coordinating driving suits could be important. Terrell, you mave have stumbled on a speed secret. Doesn't Ken have a silver suit and a silver car? Wait, Bruce has a black suit so I guess color-coordinating is not a speed secret.

[William Bonsell]

Last race last fall I ran on crap rather than buying new RA-1's because of the rule change. Picking up my Hoosiers tomorrow. If they are not allowed I will just get disqualified. As far as I am concerned, this year's rule accomodates everyone and even Randy is moving up to Hoosiers. I know this because he gave all his old, rock hard 888's to my kid. Some will go for boat anchors and some she will use up completely.

Let's move on to other more fun subjects like massive trash talking and open challenges. Better yet, let's start a "Dear Jim," column devoted to trackside manners, how to secure the best parking spots at Rose Cup, fashion tips on color coordinating our cars and clothing, etc. I'll start with the first letter:

Dear Jim,

Why do we park as two separate camps at every race? Personally, I don't understand it as everybody seems to pretty much like each other. Does this have something to do with how the old-time wrestlers used to show up in town in a van together dropping off a guy at each corner so they could come to the arena from different directions looking tough and acting like they didn't just share the ride to town?

Also, do you have any tips on car and suit color combinations or perhaps flower decorations for our trailers?

Confused

Not sure why I can't get a simple question answered. Was everyone back in October/November aware that an AIM/Toyo contingency was available..and a pretty good one I might add. I was just bringing all this up because of a thread posted on the Conference forum referencing a contingency for CSM (ain't gonna work because SM is now Hoosier/Toyo for everyone) but it caused me to have a discussion with Ron down at AIM. I know there were a lot of guys hoping to not have to blend in good Toyo's at the same time having to purchase Hoosiers if they wanted to be competitive. The contingency was precisely why the SFR stayed with Toyos for regionals. I'm just saying the contingency $$'s might have caused us to give more thought to Toyo only for regionals. I'll show up with new Hoosiers and a new nuclear head and attempt to kick some serious ass!

Oh...and being color coordinated (red car..red suit) does not knock seconds off! Just looks good in photos. See you slackers at The Ridge in April pending certification,.

Bill-

[Keith Novak]

They have NASA down there too (Toyo) and presumably more crossover between the orgs than SCCA has with conference which changes the potential reward factor of contingency money.

[Ken SM94]

Bill, no we didn't know and no it wouldn't make a difference.

The idea was maintain (maybe even improve) as many entries as possible by allowing as many options for people we could given the fact that National was on the Hoosier. It also allowed the regional guy to take his time moving to the Hoosier and not be at a disadvantage when the end came for the RA-1. It's a win for everyone in my view.

We were on the Toyo for 9 years, and the year they are voted out as the National tire we are offered a contengency for regional racing??? Sorry,too late!!

[William Bonsell]

Thanks for the response Ken. I certainly understand about allowing Toyo's for 2012 as many of us still have serviceable tires. Not sure why it would not have made a difference had the Toyo/AIM contingency been available when the decisions were being made. Not sure it really benefits anyone to adopt the National tire in an area where it is almost exclusively Regional racing. Whether late or not, the contingency program via Toyo and AIM has it's merits. Will see how everyone likes the Hoosier pricing in 2013. But, hey I'll gladly pickup two sets at the $166 price for now.

Bill-

[Ken SM94]

Hi Bill, it benifits everyone to run both tires. National racers will need to make a big investment to switch to the Hoosiers for the start of the season (2 sets of drys and a set of the wets). If we need to buy the same in Toyo's, we won't be doing any regionals.

The same is true for the Regionals guy. He's not likely to invest in a set of Hoosiers if they'll only be good for the one race.

Now that I think about it, I may have voted for the Toyo's only if there was a contengency. I would be getting all my tires for free!!