96 replies to this topic

[Flyntgr]

Thanks for your input, James. You have run the track enough to know. I will initially set up for 50.00% CW at the ride heights suggested. This being a new car, it will undoubtedly respond to changes when I get there. I have run a sub-26 with the '90 car this year, and with the new car on slippery tires (air pressures on Hoosiers not optimized) have already run a couple of low 27s. But the new car is not nearly as fast as it should be when properly set up with the Hoosiers "right". I'm being delayed by a bad wheel hub right now.

To answer your question about track time with the car: yes, I have had it on the track and like the way it drives and handles. With Davew's recommended changes it should be better-at least after I figure out the Hoosiers. I'll leave the setup alone for now, of course. The tire pressures/temps will have to be worked out to find out how she runs on correct pressures.

[James York]

Reggie,
I was unaware you had yet run a 1:25 at NPR. That is getting close and a goal would be to be consistently quick and run this pace.

I would stay with a solid set-up until you got close to your times in the 1.6L before tweaking, but that's just me. Just an opinion.

Do remember as this is critical, the 99 is quite a bit different chassis and takes a differenty style of driving. You have got something like 150 lbs more wieght to move around the track on the same size tire as before.

Be patient and don't be discouraged if your actually slower to begin. It might take quite a bit of track time before you adjust to the 99. That would be another reason to keep one setup on the car for a while.

As you know, I can't offer any 99 specific set-up advice for NPR since I never ran that car at NPR or even on Hoosiers. All my old data which wouldn't matter anyway since its from a 1.6L is long gone too. I would have to start with my "baseline" setup to start. (which gets me close at any track)

[Flyntgr]

thanks for that post. I'm glad you mentioned the possibility of my being slower in the new car at first. I hope it won't be too long before I get faster. My time table is do better this year. I'm turning up the wick while I have a wick to turn up.

[davew]

Since everybody seems to be waiting for my response, square the car. Close to even cross (within 10 pounds, sorry, I use pounds rather than percentage. That's how I was taught).

I am making an assumption here, that your old car uses the same allignment setting that you want in the new car. With that much rear toe, the car probably won't put the power down exiting the corner.

Corner weight is the finest tuning on these car. Toe and rake are much more sensative. get those set first, then fine tune with CW.

As the title of this thread says, you are WAAYYY ahead of yourself.

Over the years, I have alligned the cars of Burdzy, Brown (my Runoffs guys) Drago, Sandlin, Berry, Fowler, Steyn... and I can tell you that all their specs are very close together. And you are not that close to their setups. Go basic, then adjust once you are comfortable in your new car.

The hardest thing to adjust, and the most expensive, and the hardest to accept is the DRIVER. Some people are just better at this than others. When I drive a customers championship winning car, I am 1.5 seconds slower than he is. When he drives my car he is 1.5 seconds faster. Same day, same car, just different amounts of talent. BUT, the same amount of fun!!!!

Reggie, stop being defensive. If this group of people was not trying to be helpfull, they would not be typing replys. Ego does not win races. Patience, practice and persitance does.

Many internet forums are a bunch of BSers. The group here, really does want you to go faster, and really knows what they are talking about.

Dave

[Flyntgr]

It isn't hard at all for me to accept that the Driver is the biggest challenge in the equation. I know that very well, and I've been working on that aspect very hard ever since I started training. Still am. I have definite plans for personal instruction, and I am a good learner who gets better with practice. But I'm not nearly as good as I want to be, and might never be. I just don't want an out-of-balance car to keep me from adjusting the nut behind the wheel (me). I want the car to be set up well so I can "be all I can be", to use an army recruiting tool. thank you and everyone for advice. I'm working day and night, getting tired, still working and running this marathon we call racing. If you care to share some generic settings of guys like those you named, I could file them away for later use. Right now, I'm going CW of 50%, and I'm learning from you that the RF and LR should be close to the same, is that right? I had not heard or read that before. I guess that's where you got the "23 lb" reference in an earlier post.

[Tom Hampton]

Right now, I'm going CW of 50%, and I'm learning from you that the RF and LR should be close to the same, is that right? I had not heard or read that before. I guess that's where you got the "23 lb" reference in an earlier post

No---RF/LR will never be the same, unless you just get lucky. Besides, there's nothing you can "adjust" to change it. Just get the CW to 50%, and fix your front and rear toe.

I say "never" and "can't adjust", which isn't really true. But the point is that you start to find yourself in the "creative" or "grey" part of the rulebook. You can't move ballast around the car...but, there is some safety gear that you have a choice of mounting locations. All for a few pounds here or there.

But, that's putting a razor's edge on a butter knife.

[Johnny D]

You can't move ballast around the car...but, there is some safety gear that you have a choice of mounting locations. All for a few pounds here or there.

You can add gas and remove ballast if you want the back heavier.


Also no disrespect to any party mentioned below…

When I speak to women sometimes.
They tells me they have this problem.
I assume they want the problem fixed,
so I try to tell them how to fix it.
But no, they only wants me to listen and someone to talk to.
J~

[Flyntgr]

Good. I've been doing it that way for the past 2 years, using the calculator on line. Coincidentally, I was able to get the 4 3/4 F and 4 7/8 rear Davew suggested in about 1.5 hours. Now I will raise the car on the rf and lr to reach 50.00 %, as it is only 48.63% as it is. Curiously, there is only 8 lbs difference in RF and LR (though the CW is wrong), and only 7 lbs difference in LR and RR. Those numbers don't count, but I thought I'd just throw that in with everything else. Thanks again, Tom. I know how to raise/lower the corners to make the CW happen. Thank God....

No---RF/LR will never be the same, unless you just get lucky. Besides, there's nothing you can "adjust" to change it. Just get the CW to 50%, and fix your front and rear toe.

I say "never" and "can't adjust", which isn't really true. But the point is that you start to find yourself in the "creative" or "grey" part of the rulebook. You can't move ballast around the car...but, there is some safety gear that you have a choice of mounting locations. All for a few pounds here or there.

But, that's putting a razor's edge on a butter knife.

[Tom Hampton]

You can add gas and remove ballast if you want the back heavier.

Fair enough. But, that opens a whole 'nuther debate about sloshing.

[Bench Racer]

23 pounds of crossweight is not going to be noticable on one of these cars. Except for about 10 people in the country

Hope that helps
Dave

Reggie, I'm sure DaveW is toting cars to Road America for the Runoffs.

Anyway my WAG is that when dave mentions 23 pounds of cross weigh he is referencing the diagonal difference RF/LR to L/F R/R.

Have Fun

[Keith Novak]

Reggie,
Be patient and don't be discouraged if your actually slower to begin. It might take quite a bit of track time before you adjust to the 99. That would be another reason to keep one setup on the car for a while.

That's a really good point and I wish I had remembered it in August.

The biggest improvement I made to my car's handling this year was going from level at all 4 corners per the guide, to adding rake. I immediately noticed that the car would turn in much better and I expected to immediately set faster times, but I didn't. I shrugged it off and had fun regardless. I looked at my data and saw where I was slower and faster. The next race weekend I focused on dialing in 2 corners and just having fun. That 2nd weekend after the change, as I dialed in those corners my times became consistantly lower and lower, the deviation between laps became less and less and I was steadily knocking down my personal best times. A more experienced driver probably could have adjusted quicker but it took me a little bit to figure out what to do with this new found handling.

[Flyntgr]

Reggie, I'm sure DaveW is toting cars to Road America for the Runoffs.

Anyway my WAG is that when dave mentions 23 pounds of cross weigh he is referencing the diagonal difference RF/LR to L/F R/R.

Have Fun

If that's the measurement, I have a cross of 3 lbs.

677 625

617 568

RF/LR=1242

LF/RR=1245

Difference: 3 lbs, pretty "square", with a little rake to boot. Thanks, Dave.

[Tom Hampton]

Do you have data?

Now to drive that thing!

[Flyntgr]

Yes, Traqmate.

Do you have data?

Now to drive that thing!

[Bench Racer]

If that's the measurement, I have a cross of 3 lbs.

677 625

617 568

RF/LR=1242

LF/RR=1245

Difference: 3 lbs, pretty "square", with a little rake to boot. Thanks, Dave.

Bingo

[Flyntgr]

I took the car to the track yesterday and found that it pushed really, really badly in our long sweeping right turn on our short, twisty track. In fact, the LF Hoosier corded on me in 3 or 4 outings as I made adjustments. Long story short, with the advice of Ed Gilfus via telephone (my life line) I raised the front two wheels (one at a time)one full turn and this greatly improved the car. It now has wedge instead of rake or de-wedge, and that helps it turn right on our fast turns 13 and 14, which lead to our longest straight. It's pretty good, but still not perfect. I imagine I'll go up another half turn on the front wheels to see how that affects the car. I have not rechecked the rideheights, Crossweight or cross. I haven't had the time! Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll check out those parameters when I have the time to do them.

Follow up 9/22/11: the right front is now 1/8th inch higher than the other 3 corners, despite my most careful efforts to keep the fronts the same, and despite the fact that I didn't raise any corner more than 1 full turn (1/8"). CW is now 50.06%. RF corner was 4 15/16", the other 3 corners were at 4 13/16". The ride height has creeped back up when I raised the RF and LF by 1 full turn. What now? The car still pushes, but not as bad as when it had rake. Cross is just 4 lbs. Should I lower the RF or raise the LF, or raise LF 1/16 and lower RF 1/16 to get them level, and then, after getting the RF and LF level, should I lower the rear a half turn (1/16) to maintain the wedge? Hmmmm. What say you?

[dmathias]

Maybe a stupid question but are you doing the set-up with the drivers weight in the seat?

Think 4-legged stool. If you raise the LF and RR a 1/2 turn, you should lower the RF and LR a 1/2 turn. Measure shock travel, not ride height.