96 replies to this topic

[Johnny D]

Your basic set up is off and you need to fix that before you get into cross weight.
You're too high, so fix it. It affects camber for better or worse, so you'll have to adjust.
Toe is wrong so you'll have to adjust that.
After that your car should handle better than now.
Then you can work on Cross weight, wedge, de-wedge. But I wouldn't.

You can't jump to the end without starting at the beginning.
J~

[Flyntgr]

Your basic set up is off and you need to fix that before you get into cross weight.
You're too high, so fix it. It affects camber for better or worse, so you'll have to adjust.
Toe is wrong so you'll have to adjust that.
After that your car should handle better than now.
Then you can work on Cross weight, wedge, de-wedge. But I wouldn't.

You can't jump to the end without starting at the beginning.
J~

Did you not read my previous posts? I know how to set up the ride height first, then set cw keeping ride height the same. then the alignments will be set as davew suggested. Geez, go back and read my response to davew.

[Johnny D]

Okay, to answer your question you need your car wedged to make it turn right.
J~

[Flyntgr]

Thank you, Johnny.

[Muda]

That's it, I'm selling my Hawkeye.
Good thing I didn't throw away the strings.

[Jim Boemler]

The "would not handle at full throttle through the turns" is pretty vague, and may or may not be the car. You got several suggestions for adjusting the car to suit you, using bars, tire pressure, and rake. Don't dismiss rake, BTW, it's got a very definite effect. What you don't seem to be grasping is that until the car is handling the turns perfectly, and you're perfectly in tune with it, and you're winning most of your races, and you can discern specifically which corner you might pick up a tenth or so, biased cross weights are just meaningless. You're worrying about the tiniest adjustment, and ignoring all the ones that could really matter to you.

[Flyntgr]

The "would not handle at full throttle through the turns" is pretty vague, and may or may not be the car. You got several suggestions for adjusting the car to suit you, using bars, tire pressure, and rake. Don't dismiss rake, BTW, it's got a very definite effect. What you don't seem to be grasping is that until the car is handling the turns perfectly, and you're perfectly in tune with it, and you're winning most of your races, and you can discern specifically which corner you might pick up a tenth or so, biased cross weights are just meaningless. You're worrying about the tiniest adjustment, and ignoring all the ones that could really matter to you.

I'm trying to find the right "rake" for those turns, and in doing so, I'm asking for ballpark suggestions as to what cw might work. I'm testing, testing, testing without any real suggestions as to starting points or brackets. The car was too loose to take more throttle all the time. I'm close, though. I'm talking about tenths of a second. I'm losing a little bit from the guys who have been doing this for 5 or 6 years and have the rake figured out for their cars. Nothing would be gained by just setting it at some arbitrary cw without regard to how slow or fast it is, so I'm seeking the "best" cw for me, my car, the track, the season, the temperature, the humidity, the amount of rubber on the track, etc, etc.

[Flyntgr]

That's it, I'm selling my Hawkeye.
Good thing I didn't throw away the strings.

That's just what I told a mechanic today-who was the first one to set my alignment, only to learn a day or two later than the machine was out of calibration. I told him the toe plate, strings and degree wheel would not get out of calibration, and some guys who used those things really did a great job of aligning our cars in the old days! None of those guys gave us a false SAI reading!!!

[Jim Boemler]

I'm seeking the "best" cw for me, my car, the track, the season, the temperature, the humidity, the amount of rubber on the track, etc, etc.

OK, last time. The answer for now -- whether you accept it or not -- is "50%". I think it's substantially the same answer you've gotten from everyone else as well.

[Tom Hampton]

Okay, to answer your question you need your car wedged to make it turn right.
J~

Errr... wedge = rf/lr. Loose in a rh turn would be corrected by weight on rr/lf. That is dewedge, right?

[Keith Novak]

If your CW is 50%, you're in the ballpark. You're commenting that people aren't reading your posts, but you're not reading theirs.

[Flyntgr]

OK, last time. The answer for now -- whether you accept it or not -- is "50%". I think it's substantially the same answer you've gotten from everyone else as well.

Jim, I got it. Did you get it that I have been trying 50% for months while trying every line in those turns, but often not quite keeping up with other cars no better than mine, sometimes passing them, but not usually, against drivers with whom I am very competitive? I can gain on them and sometimes pass them, up to t13, but at that point they slowly pull away before 14, despite my driving their line, other lines, etc. True, it was another car, running against another 1.6 or two, plus another 1.8, but why should I not try other cw's? I can drive other cw's in either car. I just want to see what works best. If my car runs faster at 49 cw or 51 cw, shouldn't I try to find that out? Wouldn't you? Even a blind hog finds an acorn sometimes.

[Jim Boemler]

Not ignoring you, but I really did my last comment on your setup above. No more for me. What I'd suggest is shifting gears a little, and posting video of a couple of your races. Maybe some folks could get a better idea of the problem from that.

[Flyntgr]

Errr... wedge = rf/lr. Loose in a rh turn would be corrected by weight on rr/lf. That is dewedge, right?

Tom, exactly right. Stan, one of the fastest SM drivers ever to race on our track just told me today that I need to try cw of 49%. Heck, he uses 48% on his NASCAR tank he wrestles around the track at light speeds. I respect those who try to help out, but some of the responders think they know everything I know about my track, my car and my capabilities. They don't. So they are going far outside the arena of my question to offer advice I didn't ask for. A couple suggest I'm not reading replies, which is b.s. I don't have to accept every bit of advice offered. As a commander of troops I learned to listen well, but make command decisions I would have to live with, as would my troops. I'm not stupid, just learning about setup and alignments. Sorry for the rant, but guys, give it a break. Davew answered my questions long ago. You can let this thread rest now. I'm working on it..... Really.

[Keith Novak]

You're right. We don't even know your name let alone how your times stack up against the class leaders on your track. Try 49% and let us know how it works for you.

[Flyntgr]

You're right. We don't even know your name let alone how your times stack up against the class leaders on your track. Try 49% and let us know how it works for you.

Thanks, Jim and Keith. I appreciate everyone's good intentions, it's just late and I've been defending all day. Look at Vimeo at Circuit Grand Bayou, then go to "flyntgr" and look at my videos. They were all taken in my old 1.6 '90 SM, but it's a really good and fast car. You'll see me passing some 944s and other sm's in that curve.

Also, I updated my profile for those who might want to look at it. Thanks, everyone. I'm trying to attach a video, too. the Black Porsche is a 2.7L with around 50 h.p. more than the standard 944.

[Muda]

Waiting for the day that up 1/4 turn on the left rear is what puts me on the podium.

If the new car is as loose as the old one was in both directions I'd start looking at things other than cw.

[Flyntgr]

I'm already looking at everything. But changing one thing at a time.

[James York]

Reggie,

Wow. What an attitude toward people that are doing their best to steer you correctly. These folks are basically telling you the same thing I did over a month ago. There is a basic theme that all have......

How long have you had your new 99? Have you even driven it on the track yet?

Since you just bought it.......

99s are distinctly different than 1.6Ls. Being much heavier, they require a different driving style, hence a different type of setup. I know I have had all model years. All your set-up notes and data can be thrown out the window and your starting over from a "baseline" Take Dave W's (and about everyone else's) recommendation and start with his ride heights and a square CW until you get fast and comfortable in the car. You should easily be able to run a 1:26.00 flat at NPR with a basic setup in a good 99. Until your running consistently below that benchmark, you are the biggest variable in the car performance.

[Bench Racer]

That's it, I'm selling my Hawkeye.
Good thing I didn't throw away the strings.

That's ^ the best I'v read in a long time.


Reggie, from one ol fart to another if I'm reading your posts correctly. Your changing cars from a 1.6 to a 99 that you have not driven to date. If you do not know, another fly in the ointment will be that the 99 handles totally different than the 90. With respect to the way they handle/drive talk with a pointy end guy that has experience in both cars. Most of all, Have Fun.

EDIT:

You all ready know the pointy end guy experienced in both cars.