30 replies to this topic

[Adam Figarsky]

Has anyone heard what tires SM2 will run next year... ?

[Muda]

If they make it Toyo's I'll have to buy a second tire rack.

[Mike Collins]

I have to be honest. SM2 in the NEDiv is the dumbest thing ever. Granted I only attended one race at NJMP where SM2 was combined with SSM. The third place SM car (who lost to two 1.6 car in the SM race) won the SM2 race. If you are using this class as a place to double dip great, but claiming that the 1.6 cannot run with the 99's is a crock of sh!t.

[Glenn]

I have to be honest. SM2 in the NEDiv is the dumbest thing ever. Granted I only attended one race at NJMP where SM2 was combined with SSM. The third place SM car (who lost to two 1.6 car in the SM race) won the SM2 race. If you are using this class as a place to double dip great, but claiming that the 1.6 cannot run with the 99's is a crock of sh!t.

Double dip in STL next year!!!!!

[Muda]

I have to be honest. SM2 in the NEDiv is the dumbest thing ever. Granted I only attended one race at NJMP where SM2 was combined with SSM. The third place SM car (who lost to two 1.6 car in the SM race) won the SM2 race. If you are using this class as a place to double dip great, but claiming that the 1.6 cannot run with the 99's is a crock of sh!t.

As the driver of that third place SM car I'd like to bring along a little honesty as well. That weekend was the only time all season that I saw 1.6's dominate SM. Maybe it was because, outside of Summit, we don't often get to race with the likes of Price and Kopp (who set a track record that weekend). Maybe it was because top '99/1.8 drivers like Leverone and Cefalo were missing. Maybe it was because I got up on the wheel and earned that P3 (& P4 on Sunday) in the same POS 1.6 that has been midpack for the last 4 years. The next 6 cars on Sat. were 1.8's and all but Amy Mills were '99's. On Sunday Jedd finished 3rd in his '99 and the P5-P11 cars were all 1.8's, 5 of them '99's.

As long as the '99 enjoys the clear overdog status due to the rules changes over the last couple of years, I'll gladly support SM2.
We'll all know when the cars are even. When the prices of the cars become substantially the same across all model years, parity will have been achieved.
Until then, I'll enjoy that extra feeling of love every time I pass a '99.

[ner88]

I have to be honest. SM2 in the NEDiv is the dumbest thing ever. Granted I only attended one race at NJMP where SM2 was combined with SSM. The third place SM car (who lost to two 1.6 car in the SM race) won the SM2 race. If you are using this class as a place to double dip great, but claiming that the 1.6 cannot run with the 99's is a crock of sh!t.

Come on Mike.....
Car counts are higher then SSM and will soon be bigger than SM, many of the guys do not run SM (double dip).
What I find dumb is SM5, I haven't seen a one???

[svvs]

SM2 in the north east (not washington DC region) made sense because SSM up here was kind of petering out. There were fewer cars running SSM, and double dipping in SM in an SSM prepped car was getting old for a lot of people.

SM2 makes sense because it allows drivers to double dip into a class where they can be competitive. Double dipping into ITA up here with a SM didn't give people someplace where they could be competitive. More marginal revenue for the organizers, more track time for the racers

MARRS still has a great SSM field, and it was kind of funny to be one of 10 SM2 cars in a field full of SSM MARRS cars at NJMP. That being said, up at Watkins Glen it was more fun than funny. Well until I spun in front of everyone.

-Vick

[Mike Collins]

The rules for SM5 did not get approved until mid-season. We now have 5 of them, I know of several being built in Chicago and Texas.

My slacker '99 ran easily in the top 10 at the runoffs and june sprints, its kind of hard to beat some of the underdog "regional" 1.6's.

[Tom Sager]

claiming that the 1.6 cannot run with the 99's is a crock of sh!t.

Well, I guess that settles this debate forever.

[Jim Drago]

I'm not a big fan of SM2 either,sort of another class to get a trophy. SCCA has too many classes as-is. IMO, we are splitting a class on prep levels and not by the abilities of the cars. I could see an under $10,000 car class working with a claimer rule of $10,000. But there is no way a $10,000 car of ANY year can compete with a full blown car of ANY year, NO WAY. I think that is what we are trying to legislate, unfortunately budget is not regulated. You have $10,000 claimer rule, the racing will be really close IMO:) Well until the really wealthy guys spend 35k+ for a good car and don't care if they lose it for 10k :)Money usually wins in racing, even in spec classes, money always matters, even SRF.


Jim

[38bfast]

I'm not a big fan of SM2 either,sort of another class to get a trophy. SCCA has too many classes as-is. IMO, we are splitting a class on prep levels and not by the abilities of the cars. I could see an under $10,000 car class working with a claimer rule of $10,000. But there is no way a $10,000 car of ANY year can compete with a full blown car of ANY year, NO WAY. I think that is what we are trying to legislate, unfortunately budget is not regulated. You have $10,000 claimer rule, the racing will be really close IMO:) Well until the really wealthy guys spend 35k+ for a good car and don't care if they lose it for 10k :)Money usually wins in racing, even in spec classes, money always matters, even SRF.


Jim

lots of money and lots of time wins.

[Keith Novak]

I think it's a fact of racing that when racers get competitive, if you want to put the car in the money, you have to put the money in the car.

[Muda]

That may have been a regional but there were plenty of well prepped cars there.
Lots of tough racing all weekend.
Take a look at these highlights of the Saturday SM qualifying race.
You can spot the guys with the big motors when the green drops.
Enjoy!

[Waterboy]

That may have been a regional but there were plenty of well prepped cars there.
Lots of tough racing all weekend.
Take a look at these highlights of the Saturday SM qualifying race.
You can spot the guys with the big motors when the green drops.
Enjoy!

I think that was Mike's point. Plenty of well prepped cars and the 1.6 seem to do just fine. I don't know you and your driving ability but those 3 99's you were racing against are all well prepped and they are all good drivers and the four of you all raced close and you came out on top. Hence, why the need for SM2. We already have SM and SSM now SM2. I understand the double dipping. But double dipping should be for fun, not to be able to win in two different classes with the same car. I think SCCA has something like 25 classes, how many of those other classes could double dip in any other class? Few if any I would guess. Doesn't seem like there should ever be more than one class that a car is just as competive as the other, that's the theory behind classes I would guess.

SM is one prep level, SSM is another, and now SM2 is somewhere in the middle?

[ner88]

SM2 is a NARRC/regional only class and it works up here.
Wether you like it or not is your choice but please don't tell me it's not good.
Ask any SM racer which model/year to buy/build and the answer is a 99'.
There are plenty of good NA cars out there but try to sell one or ask a racer if it's competitive.
SM2 is for the average SM racer and a place for NA cars to be competitive, wether you beleive it or not.

[Muda]

I still believe that the '99 is an overdog.
SM2 is the acknowledgement of that fact. Ironic.
Remember a couple of years ago when your buddy bought a '99 and ...--poof-..., he got faster.
Then, last year he got spark and fuel control, and if he wasn't already cheating, ....-poof-...he got faster.
Driving my 1.6 and a well prepped '99 this weekend @ WGI.
Will have my annual, fresher perspective after that.
No SM2 class, so I will go single class on Sat. for the first time this season.
Dumb!
SM2 is also needed in the NE because SSM is dead here.
No one here is interested in managing the scrutiny necessary to make the class work.
Shame!

[Terry Whitlock]

One point that no one has made is the fact that in order for a SM car to legally run in SSM one needs to replace the intake and exhaust systems. Not a big deal mechanically but based on the time between run groups and not having a crew, its just easier to run without the bother of going back a forth between the two configurations. The DC Region has a great SSM program, but other areas of the country don't enjoy the same kind of support and administration.

[brian price]

That may have been a regional but there were plenty of well prepped cars there.
Lots of tough racing all weekend.
Take a look at these highlights of the Saturday SM qualifying race.
You can spot the guys with the big motors when the green drops.
Enjoy!

Nice video. Thanks for posting. It was good racing with you all weekend, Do you have any video of sunday's race??? That would be funny to watch...

It does kinda show the big mota cars.....

Brian

[ner88]

Adam
Your original question.......
We/NARRC (can't speak for all) will probably allow both RA1s and SM6s for 2012

[Terry Hanushek]

I'm not a big fan of SM2 either,sort of another class to get a trophy. SCCA has too many classes as-is. IMO, we are splitting a class on prep levels and not by the abilities of the cars.

SM is one prep level, SSM is another, and now SM2 is somewhere in the middle?

To clarify: SM2 is not a different prep level - it contains a subset of the SM class which is perceived to be at a disadvantage.

From the NJMP Supps under Car Eligibility: "SM2 includes 1990-1997 Miatas prepared to SM specifications." In this regard it is very similar to the IT7 class which has been established for first gen RX7's prepared to ITA specs but not considered competive in the class.

Terry