74 replies to this topic

[cpdenis]

I've been using the Carbotech brake pads XP10 and XP8 on my 99' for about 2 years now. I'm not convinced they are the best pads for me. I have many years of racing experience prior to the SM and I am finding it hard to modulate the pedal and fairly easy to lock up the fronts. The consistency is good, no fade or other problems. The other issue I have is the price. Any suggestions/experiences would be appreciated.

[Blake Thompson]

I've been using the Carbotech brake pads XP10 and XP8 on my 99' for about 2 years now. I'm not convinced they are the best pads for me. I have many years of racing experience prior to the SM and I am finding it hard to modulate the pedal and fairly easy to lock up the fronts. The consistency is good, no fade or other problems. The other issue I have is the price. Any suggestions/experiences would be appreciated.

I stubbornly ran the carbotechs for a couple seasons before another stubborn chinless ginger showed me the light. I have several brand new sets of carbotechs still in the box.

[cpdenis]

Blake, what's your new experience with?

[Blake Thompson]

Blake, what's your new experience with?

im on hawk dtc now. I am the minority at the tracks I run with. My understanding is most everyone is on PFC.

[Jim Drago]

Many very good pads out there.. Many of the best guys are on Carbotechs. I think it is 95% drivers preference.

[Ron Alan]

Many very good pads out there.. Many of the best guys are on Carbotechs. I think it is 95% drivers preference.

Would love to hear more opinions on this from drivers who have really spent time on different set ups. Amazing how wide a variety of opinions I have gotten on this. But top drivers opinions with a little detail would be greatly appreciated!!!

[Jim Drago]

I have run Carbotechs, Hawks, Cobalts and PFC's. I am going to test a new carbotech pad before the season. Each has pros and cons..

Most who trail brake use The Carbotech almost exclusively



Jim

[Glenn]

I have run Carbotechs, Hawks, Cobalts and PFC's. I am going to test a new carbotech pad before the season. Each has pros and cons..

Most who trail brake use The Carbotech almost exclusively



Jim

+1

[Mike Collins]

Hawk DTC 60 Front 30 Rear.

Go run 20 laps back to back and then you tell me whats better.

[Blake Thompson]

drago makes a great point about the trail braking. The carbs are much more forgiving about this style of driving. I also tend to brake early which is why I initially benefited from the carbotechs.

[Todd Green]

My car came with Hawks. Black/blue dunno. Hated them and didn't care to find out details. They were super grabby and I ditched them after the 1st weekend. I've always run PFC's on my M3 for the track, but went with Carbotech's (XP10/8 f/r) like just about everyone else. Much better modulation, but I didn't like the wear characteristics after the pad got below 1/2 thickness. They just seemed to wear very fast (like a single race weekend) and after two sets of shuddering rotors (presumably warped), I put a set of PFC97's on them. A smidge more initial bite than the Carbs, easy to modulate and so far are wearing like iron. (4 race days + 3 hour enduro and plenty of pad, sorry didn't have time to measure them yet for exact numbers.) The only downside so far is that they are dusty like any other PFC pad. Black wheels + gloves works around that.

[Blake Thompson]

I would agree with your comments regarding blues being too grabby. that was my experience as well. I consider them "binary" either ON or OFF. I've heard the blacks are worse but I've never used them. I had a long respite from hawk till I found the DTC.

My other thing with the carbs is I don't know if they overheat when the pad gets so thin or what but the braking characteristics take a shit after about half the pad is gone too. And I'm cheap and try to use too much of the pad. hawks are cheaper too.

[ChrisA]

I ran the XP10/8 combo for a few years and had repeated issues with pad deposits on the rotors. I'm on the PFC 06 F&R now and really like them. They modulate well and last a long time. Can't ask for much more, except maybe sponsorship.

[cpdenis]

I've gone online on the different manufacturers websites and all the pads are recommended for every application. Nascar to SCCA has the same pad recommended. Who are they kidding? Keep in mind I'm trying to find a pad with more modulation, less money. Anything more specific form the other users. So far Mike Collins is the only one committing to a suggestion.

[Blake Thompson]

no, I was fairly committed to the Hawk recommendation. And I think Drago is fairly committed to carbs, given that he WINS NATIONAL RACES ON THEM

[Mike Collins]

MEATHEAD Racing rents Summit Point on a couple of different days in the spring prior to the start of our season. It is a great chance to knock the rust off, check out the upgrades on the car from over the winter and EXPERIMENT with new technology and products. It is not uncommon for several of the MEATHEAD Racing drivers to test products on these days. In fact sometimes I can get the various manufacturers to give me products knowing I am going to test it. They give me set up/ break in instructions and then we have at it. We have done brakes, tires, exhaust and cold air intakes over the years. We use data, radar guns, different drivers feedback ect... Several years ago I was getting brakes for free and switched to another product because I was faster on it and they performed better, I have since switched again for the same reason.

We test brakes almost every year and will so again this year to figure out what works best with the Hoosier.

[davew]

I sell everything except the Carbotechs. The only reason I do not sell the carbs is that Blackhawk is my home track, about 15 weekends each year. Carbotechs do not work there. The place is just too hard on pads. The hardest track in the country on brakes. But, I know a lot of people use them at other tracks with great results. I usually put newbies on Blues to start. Then see what they like from there.

But that makes my point. Brake pads are very personal. Driver preference, driving style, track design, experience and speed are all things that need to be taken into account.

My opinion:
Hawk Blue, lots of initial bite. Perfect for beginers because you really feel the brakes bite when applied, builds confidence
Hawk DTC, great for the late braker. Handles the heat well
PFC 97, great overall pad. Modulates well, wears better than the Hawks. My biggest seller
PFC 06, actually designed as an endurance pad. Like the Carbs, did not work well at Blackhawk, so I do not stock them
Cobalt, actually my preference, very smooth, linear pad. Works great for the guys who create a lot of pedal pressure. The thicker backing plate makes them stronger to prevent bending and distortion.

Don't listen to me or any of the so called experts. This is something you have to figure out for yourself. Go to your home track. Experiment for a weekend. Give yourself time to get accustomed to the new feel. If you like it, great. If not try something else. Don't be afraid to mix compounds front to rear. I have guys on every concievable combination of the pads listed above. Cobalt/PFC, DTC/Blue, DTC/ PFC, PFC/Blue etc.

Dave

[davecarama]

I love my Hawk Blue pads... guess that makes me a beginner

I have used HP+ (sucky street pads), Black/Black combo, the blue/black combo, and the blue/blue combo. I have also always been on Hoosiers, if that may make a difference? I've always loved the Blue/Blue combo. I don't lock them up and find threshold and trail braking to be quite good.

Mike will have to share his findings after the spring test day... Or perhaps I will have to hide in the woods with a spy camera...

Odd that you lock up the fronts though. Usually the backs tend to lock up since the car is so loaded to the front in the braking zones...

[steveracer]

+1 for Cobalt

Hawks cost TOO much in flatspotted tires...

Several attempts with CarboTechs, I couldn't make them not shudder...

PFC's were ok, but cracked badly from heat, I never felt comfortable that they weren't going to come apart, and they wore tapered which Cobalts do not.

[Rob Gibson]

We put on Raybestos ST43 pads (front and rear) from Porterfield for the 25 Hours a few years ago. Liked them so much we've used them for every race since then. Great initial bite, decent modulation, rotor friendly, relatively cheap, and wear is amazing. We typically put a brand new set on for the start of the 25 hours, use them for the entire race, but then they last half of the next season, including numerous sprint races and a couple 3-hour enduros. The only downside is the edges will chunk slightly when the pad is getting low. But for most guys that should be like every 3 seasons!

For budget conscious racers, I'm still surprised they aren't in every single brake pad discussion--probably because they're not as easy to find as the others. Call Tim Gray at Porterfield Brakes and tell him Rob Gibson/RJ Racing sent you. And they give a discount to NASA and SCCA racers.