74 replies to this topic

[john mueller]

We put on Raybestos ST43 pads (front and rear) from Porterfield for the 25 Hours a few years ago. Liked them so much we've used them for every race since then. Great initial bite, decent modulation, rotor friendly, relatively cheap, and wear is amazing.

RJR turned me on to the ST43's and they are easy on pads and do last and last and last... Personally I had modulation issues with them and created several square tires but everyone else who drove my car in enduro's loved them. I've since switched back to Carbos...

Brake pads are very personal. Driver preference, driving style, track design, experience and speed are all things that need to be taken into account.

Don't listen to me or any of the so called experts. This is something you have to figure out for yourself. Go to your home track. Experiment for a weekend. Give yourself time to get accustomed to the new feel. If you like it, great. If not try something else. Don't be afraid to mix compounds front to rear. I have guys on every concievable combination of the pads listed above. Cobalt/PFC, DTC/Blue, DTC/ PFC, PFC/Blue etc. Dave

Great post Dave !!! Spot on.

Edited by john mueller, 11-03-2011 07:51 PM.
typo

[Keith Novak]

+1 on personal preference. Pads seem to have a love hate thing going on. You'll find lots of opinions. You'll also find different opinions on the bedding procedure. Carbotechs for example...I know people who swear by them and swear at them. They feel great. They feel squishy. They're easy to modulate or not. They make the car darty under braking or not. Some say you must bed them in per the instructions while others will say they're really not that sensitive to initial bedding. I flip-flop on whether I love or hate them day to day.

Next season, I have a new fresh set that I know well but will test out others to see what fits my driving style best.

[cpdenis]

Dave, I appreciate your candor unfortunately I have neither the time or resources to test all the different compounds. The information is getting good and appreciate it, keep it coming.
John, I need brake pads for my 99'.
Thanks

[ChrisA]

+1 for Cobalt

Hawks cost TOO much in flatspotted tires...

Several attempts with CarboTechs, I couldn't make them not shudder...

PFC's were ok, but cracked badly from heat, I never felt comfortable that they weren't going to come apart, and they wore tapered which Cobalts do not.

FWIW, I experienced NO cracking with the PFC 06.

[Jim Drago]

One thing I didn't like on Cobalts is that they seemed to heat cycle out with half the pad left? I also thought they were the easiest to lock up tires

I have not seen cracking PFC pads, but I have seen in others cars

Hawks worked well for me as well, ran blues for years

Jim

[FastM3]

Been using DTC 60 on the front for two seasons. Good modulation and don't grab like the Blues. Seem to last 2 weekends of 8 sessions/ Would think they should last longer.

Have used the DTC 30 on the rear.as well as the Carbotech XP8. Either will last an entire season.

It does seem like the bias is more to the front with either pad on the rear..

I am thinking of trying Blues on the rear to move the bias slightly more to the rear. Any thoughts on this??????

Phil # 38

[Killian]

How about Hawk DTC-60 front and rear? I've been using this setup, and didn't notice any adverse wear or modulation issues.

[Ron Alan]

Already very obvious this is a driver choice with the wide variety of opinions! My interest in this subject was mentioned earlier which is flat spotted tires! This can make the overall cost of pads cheap or really expensive. Though i have a feeling many more factors contribute to a single tire, or side, or front, or back lock ups...lets assume for a second it is the pads. We run Hawk blues and this has been an issue...to the point of not releasing when pedal lifts. Not sure if this is common or it is driver error but if it is a pad issue a change may be in order. Any feedback or tips on anything brake system related(mechanical) is appreciated. If it boils down to more a driver issue(lockup)then I will have a serious discussion with mine But for sure we are late and hard brakers...FWIW

[Alberto]

I really never liked the Hawk Blues. The old saying among some of my buds was buy one set of Blues and 2 sets of rotors as the rotor would wear quicker than the pad. The brake dust was also nasty.

I have used the Hawk HT10 pads. Hated them. Porterfield R4 and R4E (enduro) wasn't bad but nothing special. I really LOVE the Hawk DTC60 pads. They have great feel and modulation, release smoothly even on trail brake (on my cars), good resistance to heat when used in the Miata (although I could overheat them in a faster car). PFC is held by many as the "gold standard" but I have never used them. Grassroots Motorsports did a comparison on pads recently and the DTC60 and PFC were highly praised fwiw.

I've heard many good things about the ST43 from drivers of other race cars. Both in terms of performance and wear. but have never used them personally.

Already very obvious this is a driver choice with the wide variety of opinions! My interest in this subject was mentioned earlier which is flat spotted tires! This can make the overall cost of pads cheap or really expensive. Though i have a feeling many more factors contribute to a single tire, or side, or front, or back lock ups...lets assume for a second it is the pads. We run Hawk blues and this has been an issue...to the point of not releasing when pedal lifts. Not sure if this is common or it is driver error but if it is a pad issue a change may be in order. Any feedback or tips on anything brake system related(mechanical) is appreciated. If it boils down to more a driver issue(lockup)then I will have a serious discussion with mine But for sure we are late and hard brakers...FWIW

Ron,

How old are your calipers? Ever been rebuilt?

Are you running the brake pad hardware?

I get more consistent pad wear using the hardware and no issues with pad drag on pedal release. The clips are smooth metal (compared to the rough cast iron of the caliper mount itself) so the brake pad slides more easily over the smooth metal clips when compressed by the caliper piston. On pedal release, the springs help the pads to back away from the rotor by sliding along the clips. Using the hardware has resulted in more even pad wear and less taper for me (YMMV). The springs help retract the pads away from the rotor when you release the brake - resulting in less brake pad drag

If you aren't using the hardware, it may be worth cleaning up the area of the caliper that the pad sits and slides on to ensure the surface is smooth and doesn't interfere with the pads moving around.

Hope that helps.

[svvs]

Since we're all chiming in here....

I run Carbotech XP10's on the front, XP8's on the rear. My car is a slightly overweight 1.6L.

I get them pre-bedded from the factory......less nonsense for me to deal with, and one less variable.

I run them to the backer plates basically. I know it's time to replace them when the pad knock back gets bad. I should probably replace them sooner.

They are easy for me to modulate, and given my "long light" braking style, I like the fact they don't grab too hard. That being said there are times when I miss having the immediate stopping power of hawk blues front and rear.

An interesting note....a set of fronts will basically last for a four hour enduro and a bit of sprint racing. Otherwise I get fourish weekends of double dipping out of a set of fronts. I only use one set of rotors a year on the carbotechs. No one said my car prep was up to snuff however.

-Vick

[Blake Thompson]

Been using DTC 60 on the front for two seasons. Good modulation and don't grab like the Blues. Seem to last 2 weekends of 8 sessions/ Would think they should last longer.

Have used the DTC 30 on the rear.as well as the Carbotech XP8. Either will last an entire season.

It does seem like the bias is more to the front with either pad on the rear..

I am thinking of trying Blues on the rear to move the bias slightly more to the rear. Any thoughts on this??????

Phil # 38

in my 1990 I get 4-5 weekends out of the fronts, or 12-15 sessions. If you are running two run groups I suppose I see that as similar?
But I had extremely bad and uneven and heavy wear until i bought new calipers for my car this year. Then things got better and i got a lot faster.

[Blake Thompson]

I really never liked the Hawk Blues. The old saying among some of my buds was buy one set of Blues and 2 sets of rotors as the rotor would wear quicker than the pad. The brake dust was also nasty.

totally agree. I ate up rotors like crazy on the blues.

[ChrisA]

Since we're all chiming in here....

I run Carbotech XP10's on the front, XP8's on the rear....

An interesting note....a set of fronts will basically last for a four hour enduro and a bit of sprint racing. Otherwise I get fourish weekends of double dipping out of a set of fronts. I only use one set of rotors a year on the carbotechs. No one said my car prep was up to snuff however.

-Vick

That's roughly what I got out of that combo on my '99. Now with the PFC 06s, I'm getting around 10-12 events out of a set. Interesting thing is the F & R wear at pretty close to the same rate.

[ChrisA]

totally agree. I ate up rotors like crazy on the blues.

Luckily our rotors cost less then the pads.

[GROOTS]

I switched from Hawk blues to Carbotechs about 3 events ago. The Carbos are softer and definetly easier on the rotors. I miss the stopping power of the Hawks though. So to try the inbetween I just put a set of PFC's and new rotors on the car for next season. See how it feels.
Anybody need a set of bedded Carbos and matching rotors with 90% left. Plus a new set of pre bedded carbos. ?

Hope the PFC's give me some initial bite than the Carbo's

[Blake Thompson]

Luckily our rotors cost less then the pads.

lol i guess but "some rotors" costs more money than "none rotors" - either way, rotors cost more than my fuel for the weekend.

[davecarama]

I really never liked the Hawk Blues. The old saying among some of my buds was buy one set of Blues and 2 sets of rotors as the rotor would wear quicker than the pad. The brake dust was also nasty.

100% agree on the dust... nasty stuff!
Pads are in the $100-$150 range... rotors are in the $20 range. I'll swap out rotors over swapping out pads any day!

[FTodaro]

You know what they say opinions are like A%$*&le's everyone has one, So I will share mine. I run the blues front and rear, I try not to use them often but when I do they are there. I like to trail brake and do not find it difficult to modulate them at all. I like to late brake when I need to and they are good in that department. They wear like Iron for me. I can almost get a season out of them.

I did also try the carbo's and did not like them, took to much pedal pressure to stop the car and messed up my pedal alignment on heal toe. I did not get much life out of them either.

I personally do not care what kind of dust a pad throws off, its a race car to me not a show piece, and since rotors only cost 20.00 I could care if they are hard on rotors. When I uses to track a P Car yeas ago, I was concerned about rotors when the cost me 350.00 each.

I may try the DT 60 this year at some point as I am continually trying to use as little brake as I can. I have said for awhile now, the only difference between me and my competitors who are faster is that they use less brake than I do.

[Blake Thompson]

the only difference between me and my competitors who are faster is that they use less brake than I do.

oh, is that it? You've unlocked the key for me! #sillyseason

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I used carbotech xp10 front and xp8 rears for about 2 months then changed to xp10's front and rear, then to xp12's front and rear. I still never felt like I had enough brake to stop sometimes. After some coaching I changed over to Cobalts 5's front and 3's rear. I did this the weekend before tha NASA nationals, it was a hard process for me to get used to, having a brake that mearly the shadow of your foot hovering over the bake pedal causing the front end to dive on my car. I think I went something like 2 seconds slower with them a lap on the first weekend and well about 1 second slower the week of the Nationals. Now I have it figured out and my lap times have actually improved by about .3 a lap over what I was able to do with the Carbotechs. In two full seasons of SM, I have flat spotted 3 tires and only one since changing to Cobalt, but that was a car malfuntion that sent me off track, and not the pads themselves.

My car has been on the same Cobalt pads for 5 race weekends and I think the car could do yet another race weekend without changing them, most I ever got out of carbotech was 3 race weekends if I could stand the long pedal.

My experience is this: you can get used to whatever you put on the car if you are patient, stick with it and learn. I almost got to impatient and went back to my old pads, but now I am glad I didn't!