41 replies to this topic

[Edens]

'Tyler Raatz', on 30 Jan 2011 - 8:43 PM, said:

.5mm overbore

Ok, correct me if I am wrong, but wouldnt .5mm overbore on a 1.8 block put you to 1862cc?

If so, that would make your minimum weight 2531.75lbs!

1.9L= 2470lbs + 61.75 (2.5% RWD penalty) = 2531.75lbs

[Jim Drago]

I won the first Super tour race at Sebring in STL.. I just pulled plate in my 99. that wont get it done those from here forward IMO. Some pretty fast cars out there.
Jim

[Edens]

Im ready to have the engine back in mine and see how it stacks up. Gonna be a very fun car!

[known]

Nice win Jim, I heard from some of the local guys that you were out there running STL and had won.

Michael, Im aware of the rule about JDM engines dont worry! I still dont understand that rule considering all the data available on most JDM, EDM, etc motors but it is what it is for now. Im aware of a few people that decided to run ITB instead due to engine selection available in STL trim which stinks for overall #'s.

Good luck edens, I think Tyler changed his plans due to the rules so Im interested to see what you have put together..

[trey]

I'm building an STL car ... Just ordered my stickers

At some point I'll do a motor , but for now it's going to be an STL/ITA car

[smbstyle]

I'm running my first STL race at the end of this month. I have a 1990 NA with a 99 engine and some light mods, so I added the safety equipment and it fits right into STL, but doesnt appear that it's going to be competitive by any means at this point.

Currently, this is what the car has:

99 motor swap (BP4W) @ 14* timing - 1.6 AFM, 1.6 TB, VICS non-operational since I'm running the 1.6 electronics and ECU
02+ sport brake swap
Koni Yellows/FM springs
Stock swaybars
Stock exhaust
Stock VLSD
15x7 TRM wheels w/ RA1s

Here are my planned modifications, I'm trying to keep this build within a strict and small budget, and will be adding a bit at a time:
RB Header and Springfield Dyno catback
Custom true CAI
Megasquirt ECU to delete the restrictive 1.6 AFM, control VICS and use the better 99 throttle body
.020 head shave with some light chamber polishing
BP5A Intake Cam
Supertech valves and valvespring kit
Denso injectors, M-tune fuel rail & adjustable FPR
DGR Coilovers
RB or FM front swaybar
1.8 Torsen LSD swap
Hoosier R6's
maybe some aero mods like the APR wing and the 949 Racing front air dam

[Jim Drago]

I have been ordering some stuff slowly... I have rods, pistons and rings, cams are ordered. I'm hoping to run one weekend before Runoffs. I guess we will just see if I get one ready or not. It is definitely a back burner project right now
Jim

[smbstyle]

'Jim Drago', on 12 Mar 2012 - 01:00 AM, said:

I have been ordering some stuff slowly... I have rods, pistons and rings, cams are ordered. I'm hoping to run one weekend before Runoffs. I guess we will just see if I get one ready or not. It is definitely a back burner project right now
Jim

Jim,

Would that trans tunnel mod you sell, the "L" shaped insert to make room for a larger driver's seat, be in violation of ST rule 9.1.4.E.5. for a specifically built STL car, and not an IT/SM running in STL?

"The chassis shall not be modified to make additional clearance for the driver’s seat."

[Michael Colangelo]

Here's my STL car on paper. Nothing crazy, mostly a b-series swap with the usual Honda bolt-ons. I'd expect a car like this to be competitive at the regional level. This could also be a NASA H2 car.

89-91 Honda CRX
B16A motor (stock internals)
DC Sports 4-2-1 header
AEM intake
LSD, (I'll have to do some research on the OEM final drives that fall within the rules)
Koni yellow/Ground Control coil over suspension (standard CRX road racing setup)

Min weight = 2080 lbs so, with a stripped chassis, I'd have to run some ballast.

There's still plenty of room for development (e.g., aero, ECU, engine work within the rules, better suspension, etc.) but I believe the above is very much the Honda "cheap and easy" button for this class.

I currently race an ITA/H4 CRX Si but would prefer to start with a clean chassis for this car if I actually build it. Lately, I find myself checking Craigslist for clean EF CRXes....

[Jim Drago]

'Michael Colangelo', on 12 Mar 2012 - 05:44 AM, said:

Here's my STL car on paper. Nothing crazy, mostly a b-series swap with the usual Honda bolt-ons. I'd expect a car like this to be competitive at the regional level. This could also be a NASA H2 car.

89-91 Honda CRX
B16A motor (stock internals)
DC Sports 4-2-1 header
AEM intake
LSD, (I'll have to do some research on the OEM final drives that fall within the rules)
Koni yellow/Ground Control coil over suspension (standard CRX road racing setup)

Min weight = 2080 lbs so, with a stripped chassis, I'd have to run some ballast.

There's still plenty of room for development (e.g., aero, ECU, engine work within the rules, better suspension, etc.) but I believe the above is very much the Honda "cheap and easy" button for this class.

I currently race an ITA/H4 CRX Si but would prefer to start with a clean chassis for this car if I actually build it. Lately, I find myself checking Craigslist for clean EF CRXes....

I think that is the winning car in the current formula. it will make as much HP as any 1.8 Miata and be 400 lbs lighter.

[trey]

Jim , You have any thoughts on miata aero ?

One of our STU guys in a 150 HP Nissan picked up several seconds via F&R aero.

BTW : The miata vs honda example ( same HP and 400# difference ) is somewhat discouraging for a guy considering either developing my 95 ITA miata or building a 99 / 01 / 06+ .... especially when Greg has stated the plan to add more weight to RWD cars

[Glenn]

95 Chasis, with ABS. The PLAN is to put a 1.6 into it and take advantage of the reduced weight. Greg will keep trying to add weight to our cars untill the FWD is the ONLY car to have. We will need to be viligent with the BOD to keep it from happining.

[trey]

'Glenn', on 12 Mar 2012 - 1:32 PM, said:

95 Chasis, with ABS. The PLAN is to put a 1.6 into it and take advantage of the reduced weight. Greg will keep trying to add weight to our cars untill the FWD is the ONLY car to have. We will need to be viligent with the BOD to keep it from happining.

I was wondering if somebody was going to try the 1.6 ... I was thinking about it for about half the race yesterday when an FP miata was holding me up in the corners and walking me big time on the straights @ TWS ... Look forward to seeing how the 1.6 works

[Glenn]

'trey', on 12 Mar 2012 - 1:45 PM, said:

I was wondering if somebody was going to try the 1.6 ... I was thinking about it for about half the race yesterday when an FP miata was holding me up in the corners and walking me big time on the straights @ TWS ... Look forward to seeing how the 1.6 works

Considerring we can have more mods than the F prod guys it should be a good pick. Also the R/D on headers is all ready out there, Prather has a KILLER header for the 1.6.

[Michael Colangelo]

Don't forget, OEM CRX front brakes are a bit undersized for the car (believe it or not) for racing purposes and the CRX doesn't handle as well as the Miata. So, while my hypothetical CRX may have the HP/weight advantage, the Miata has better brakes and better suspension. I say this as a driver who started out in a Spec Miata and now races a CRX. I really miss driving a car as well balanced as a Spec Miata. It may turn out to be that on tracks with long straights, the CRX is the car to have, while on more technical tracks, the Miata has the advantage.

As an ITA CRX racer, I always enjoy dicing it up with the Spec Miatas (since many of the drivers are friends of mine, haha). Each car has it's strengths and weaknesses and I think this can be a really fun class.

[Jim Drago]

My feelings are this...

I want to win the Runoffs, don't care about much else. I like the Miata because I am infinitely familiar. The facts... like when I ran SSB in 2009, a car down on HP but handled great is doomed at Road America. I set the SSB track record in my 99 Miata in 2009 Cat National. I brought the car home and instantly tore it apart and turned it back into a SM. The car WAS NOT competitive. You get killed on the straights and there simply is no place to gap a faster car there. Each straight the faster car comes right around the better handling car. You can only "try" a pass going into T8, a small move left kills that attempt. If you do get by, you are passed down the back straight. It is an impossible task IMO. During the year ( which is what we balance these cars for, not the Runoffs) the car will be fine, maybe even preferred. So you have to pick your car according to your goals, if winning the Runoffs is the goal, IMO the Miata is NOT the best choice. If you want a great car for the entire season, the Miata is a great choice.
As far as FWD and RWD goes.. While as a Miata competitor, I don't want any more weight either. However as A CRB member you can't think of what is in your garage or a car you may build etc. My opinion as a CRB member is that I think you need to look at it on a car by car basis. If my choice was between a 1999 1.8 protege at 2430, or a 1999 miata at 2480. There is no way in the world I take the Protege? Would you? It gets cloudy when comparing different manufacturers, like the Honda VS Miata etc. What if you had a choice between a 2480 S2000 vs a 2430 civic? Again, you would take the S2000. I think in the long term, we will be looking at over achieving engines etc to balance this. This will be a great class, it may take a season or two to get it right, but we will get it.

Thanks
Jim

[Michael Colangelo]

OK, well I just pulled the trigger on a clean '91 Civic Si ITA/H4 car. Fairly recent build with a good suspension (Koni/GC) and a very nice roll cage. The plan is to build it up like I described above for a CRX. It'll be getting a stock B16A2 along with header, intake, race exhaust, helical LSD, and also a rear disc brake conversion. Still researching final drives. Might get lighter wheels, too. That's pretty much it for now.

The Civic is a bit heavier than the CRX but there are ways that I can legally reduce weight if I think it's necessary. I don't plan on racing at the national level with this car (hence the stock motor). I figure it'll make for a fun, semi-cheap regional STL car. I expect this car to be pretty competitive here in the OR/NWR STL races where most of the competition are Spec Miatas.

[William Bonsell]

Congrats Michael on the new buy. Currently I think anyone running STL is just jumping in with their basic SM, so you should do well - or at least the car will..HA. Look forward to seeing you at the Ridge.

Bill-

ps: I have heard there is a header out there for the 1.6 which produces another 10%+...if I was to seriously consider STL, that would be my one buy! (I think it's legal).

[Michael Colangelo]

Hey, Bill!

Yep, I've been looking at doing something like this for a while now. Now I need to source a healthy B16A2 and scorunge up some other parts. My goal is to have it in true STL trim by mid-May.

I'll still be running my CRX in ITA and H4.

See you Sunday!

[Glen McCready]

'smbstyle', on 11 Mar 2012 - 5:49 PM, said:

99 motor swap (BP4W) @ 14* timing - 1.6 AFM, 1.6 TB, VICS non-operational since I'm running the 1.6 electronics and ECU
02+ sport brake swap
Koni Yellows/FM springs
Stock swaybars
Stock exhaust
Stock VLSD
15x7 TRM wheels w/ RA1s

I just ran Laguna and Sears in a similar car... 1991 base, 1.6L stock 142Kmi motor with headers and full exhaust, K&N drop-in filter, 15x7 wheels, 205/50r15 RA1s, Flyin' Miata springs & sways & hats, KYB AGX shocks. The FM suspension is nowhere near enough for a track car. The springs are way too little. Maybe the KONIs will help you, but I don't think they'll help enough. Focus on getting a good suspension under you before worrying too much about more power... unless you get real crazy power you're going to need to keep the cornering speeds up to be competitive... I got walked on every straight with the 1.6 motor...

FWIW, you car probably translates nicely in to NASA Performance Touring, too...