79 replies to this topic

[Rob Burgoon]

Who is at fault and why?

SCCA Super Tour STL race

Car 1:
http://youtu.be/zUuF...d=1&t=1m10s

Car 2:
http://youtu.be/v-oEwIWS2vU

[Zauskycop]

I'm not the pro here, but I would like to HEAR his explanation. If it is anything but "my speed carried me to the outside and I didn't see him", then he is at fault. You definitely had your car up on him and passing. So in my opinion, you are NOT at fault, he MAY be at fault, or it may just be written off as a racing incident and he owes you a huge apology.

IMO

BTW, your races sure are full of incidents down there!!!

[Rob Burgoon]

BTW, your races sure are full of incidents down there!!!

They do like to call me "Crash" Burgoon on another forum...

[Bench Racer]

Three statements/questions:

1. Did you know the car was attempting drivers side pass?

2. Looking at the video & viewing in your rear view mirror the view out the your drivers window shows the other cars outside mirror & all of the A pillar past the B pillar might suggest the passing drivers car nose was to the front edge of your drivers door. I have a similar mirror mounted in such a way that I can see out all most all of the drivers window, the rear window & all of the passengers window. What did you see while racing?

3. If what I've described is true maybe you didn't allow the other driver racing room.

This was an SCCA race correct.

No matter what, it sucks when cars are damaged & egos are dinged.

[Jim Boemler]

Looked to me like you got hosed.

[Rob Burgoon]

Three statements/questions: 1. Did you know the car was attempting drivers side pass? 2. Looking at the video & viewing in your rear view mirror the view out the your drivers window shows the other cars outside mirror & all of the A pillar past the B pillar might suggest the passing drivers car nose was to the front edge of your drivers door. I have a similar mirror mounted in such a way that I can see out all most all of the drivers window, the rear window & all of the passengers window. What did you see while racing? 3. If what I've described is true maybe you didn't allow the other driver racing room. This was an SCCA race correct. No matter what, it sucks when cars are damaged & egos are dinged.

I was driving Car #1, the one that says Burgoon on the windshield and dodged the potty. Mark Lange was in Car #2 and was upset and wanting to protest.

[Keith Novak]

I could see how both drivers would think they got hosed from their videos. From yours, it looks to me like you're almost fully along side. You're lined up at the left edge of the track, parallel with the other driver with nowhere further left to go and the car moved abruptly at you. It does look like your hands made a quick move right before, catching the car but it doesn't look like your line changed and you moved right at all.

In the other drivers video, it doesn't look like they made an abrupt move though. They are lined up at the same point on the track, you were between them and that point and had the right to racing room. It's kind of deceptive with that turn-out to the left because for a bit it looks like there is a ton of room to the left that suddenly disappears.

In the end though. I think you got hosed too. They might have thought you had plenty of room but they can't just keep going wider and run you off the track.

[Rob Burgoon]

I'm not the pro here, but I would like to HEAR his explanation.

Mark's position:

"And I at least viewed both videos before jumping to any conclusions which tells me not only are you wrong but arrogant as well. I know you’ll never admit it but you just got way too aggressive and should have backed off but instead you made your turn as if I wasn’t even there and that’s what caused the accident. Pay attention to my hands and yours, I never turned left but you definitely turned right."

[Zauskycop]

I think your nose was up at his front wheel...and that definitely gives you (in my book) the right to that spot. Your hands moved right to follow the track (if I saw that turn correctly). Sorry Mark (if you are reading this) but I think Rob has a supported gripe here. I don't think it was "intentional" but when you get passed by one car, you have to check if another is tagging along...which you did...and he didn't see.

[Bench Racer]

I was driving Car #1, the one that says Burgoon on the windshield and dodged the potty. Mark Lange was in Car #2 and was upset and wanting to protest.

i didn't pay attention to whose video it ws or the name on the video cars windshield. Thought the video was yours. Through that Lang video I don't view any car that says Burgoon or a car with #1. Lang wanted to protest the car viewed out his rearview mirror, correct.

My questions within my first post were to the driver of the video car Lang.

Watching a couple more times & I don't view the video car turning right with the track before the hit. Back to my original question, did the video car see the drivers side passing car & if he did, did the video car leave racing room.

[Rob Burgoon]

i didn't pay attention to whose video it ws or the name on the video cars windshield. Thought the video was yours. Through that Lang video I don't view any car that says Burgoon or a car with #1. Lang wanted to protest the car viewed out his rearview mirror, correct. My questions within my first post were to the driver of the video car Lang. Watching a couple more times & I don't view the video car turning right with the track before the hit. Back to my original question, did the video car see the drivers side passing car & if he did, did the video car leave racing room.

Dave, there are two videos in the first post. One is embedded, the other is just a link. My car is the purple car, Mark's is black with white cage and orange mirrors. Click the top link and skip to 1:10.

[dstevens]

Nice job dodging the plastic crapper....

[Rob Burgoon]

To his credit Mark has apologized and says he now sees that he didn't leave racing room.

[KentCarter]

Another success for MazdaRacers court!

[Jim Boemler]

Well, yeah. His car went a full car-width off the track to the left, practically like he was ramming you intentionally.

[Alberto]

To his credit Mark has apologized and says he now sees that he didn't leave racing room.

'bout time. I saw the thread on trackhq earlier when I was looking for Buttonwillow video. Seems like too much drama down there...

[Rob Burgoon]

'bout time. I saw the thread on trackhq earlier when I was looking for Buttonwillow video. Seems like too much drama down there...

I was frankly shocked (and kinda worried) when he didn't yield after seeing my video. I suggested he take my video to discretely get some outside opinions but he wasn't having it. I changed tactics and let the forum weigh in instead.

[Rob Burgoon]

I think your nose was up at his front wheel...and that definitely gives you (in my book) the right to that spot.

Per NASA rules with a wheel at his door I get 3/4 of a car width and a right to not be swiped at. Per SCCA rules, with as little as a front bumper along his rear bumper I think I have a (flimsy) right to be there.

[Elliott Skeer]

Yea I will say you did get screwed there, he ran you off. Oh and my name has 2 T's at the end

[Keith Novak]

It's a good example of how different views of the same thing can draw different conclusions. If I just saw his vid, it looked like there was room and you hit him out of the blue. Seeing yours I don't think you could have avoided getting hit without just driving off.

I had almost the same thing happen during an enduro at about 2am. It was a right turn then a left. I was passing on the inside on the right turn and he came all the way across to set up for the left and hit me hard. The driver came and talked to me afterwards thinking I drove into him. I explained my side of the story and that was the end of it but his perspective at the time was I hit him out of nowhere when really I had a choice of driving off into a rocky field with an ominous dirt berm not too far off in the dark or hold on and try not to get forced off.