79 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

Dave, there are two videos in the first post. One is embedded, the other is just a link. My car is the purple car, Mark's is black with white cage and orange mirrors. Click the top link and skip to 1:10.

Rob, & to each thread there is a guiding light. Thank you for the re-alignment. In my very first post (after watching ONLY the embedded video) I was attempting to be sensitive to all. After watching the link video it confirms what I viewed in the embedded video.

Someone either didn't see you & someone was side drafting (err, side blocking) & you received the short end of the stick.

[Lange]

Fortunately someone told me about this being posted otherwise I would never have known or had the opportunity to read everyone's replies. I do appreciate the feedback and see that I should have turned in sooner and left Rob with racing room. What I do not appreciate is how Rob has handled the incident. This should have been something that we could work out between us and unfortunately that hasn't happened. I think Rob is taking the position of an innocent bystander and although I do agree that I made a mistake, it's obvious from my video and Rob's who was in a better position to see both cars and avoid the contact. Rob could have backed off before turning in and let me know after the race what I had done wrong but he decided it was more important to be right then avoid the contact. Please do not misunderstand me I am taking responsibility for not having left sufficient racing room but could Rob have avoided the contact? Just like my Mom used to say to me and my brother "It takes two to fight".

[Rob Burgoon]

Fortunately someone told me about this being posted otherwise I would never have known or had the opportunity to read everyone's replies. I do appreciate the feedback and see that I should have turned in sooner and left Rob with racing room. What I do not appreciate is how Rob has handled the incident. This should have been something that we could work out between us and unfortunately that hasn't happened. I think Rob is taking the position of an innocent bystander and although I do agree that I made a mistake, it's obvious from my video and Rob's who was in a better position to see both cars and avoid the contact. Rob could have backed off before turning in and let me know after the race what I had done wrong but he decided it was more important to be right then avoid the contact. Please do not misunderstand me I am taking responsibility for not having left sufficient racing room but could Rob have avoided the contact? Just like my Mom used to say to me and my brother "It takes two to fight".

Dang, I thought you understood this.

Mark, either you came over intentionally or you completely weren't paying attention. Either way, this is 100% on you. If you don't like the idea of being passed around the outside of a gentle right hander, you need a new hobby.

[Rob Burgoon]

Also, a freebie for any rookies reading along; if you go through a corner sideways or make a mistake, YOU'RE GONNA GET PASSED. If there ever was a time for checking those mirrors twice, it's after you make a mistake or miss a shift.

[Ron Alan]

Mark,

Welcome to the forum! Shit happens, tempers flare, bombs are thrown, people react and defend...a pretty typical weekend of racing! Hindsight is 20/20...and in this case I think both drivers gain knowledge and move on with it. Not knowing the track, the power/speed of each of your cars, its hard to asses any mistake Rob made(or your logic) other than a pass that some may consider low percentage based on what follows after impact(assuming there was none)...but again I can't and wont judge that. Based on what your reaction is in the video, it's obvious you didn't see him. This you own and have said so...all you can do. Mistakes are made(rarely intentional)and everyone has to move on. Glass houses Rob...

[Rob Burgoon]

other than a pass that some may consider low percentage based on what follows after impact(assuming there was none)...

Low percentage to make a safe successful pass under SCCA rules while nearly fully alongside on the inside of Phil Hill? O really...

Ron, when I screw up, I own up to it. I don't own any part of this collision, so I'm not going to say "gee golly, maybe I shouldn't try to pass people" in the interest of compromise for its own sake. My best bet for avoiding it would have been hitting him on the corner before I moved alongside so he would know I was there. That or letting the air out of his tires so he couldn't start.

[Ron Alan]

Wasn't being critical Rob...which is why I stated I can't comment...only putting out a potential hypothetical. I see no fault on your part, was just trying to figure why Mark wouldn't have expected you to be there. But as you said, after a tank slapper you better look in your mirrors. On to the next video

[Todd Tagget]

Dang, I thought you understood this.

Mark, either you came over intentionally or you completely weren't paying attention. Either way, this is 100% on you. If you don't like the idea of being passed around the outside of a gentle right hander, you need a new hobby.

In defense of Rob I didn't read it like he was looking for a fight, more of a sanity check that he was in the clear. Re-read his first post,, "who's at fault ? " This remains a pretty tame forum (come over to some of the other car forums if you want to see flames)

[Rob Burgoon]

In defense of Rob I didn't read it like he was looking for a fight, more of a sanity check that he was in the clear. Re-read his first post,, "who's at fault ? " This remains a pretty tame forum (come over to some of the other car forums if you want to see flames)

Close, I knew I was 100% in the clear, just wanted to put it up without putting spin on it so Mark could hear it from outside people he's not frustrated with.

[dstevens]

Not knowing the track, the power/speed of each of your cars, its hard to asses any mistake Rob made(or your logic) other than a pass that some may consider low percentage based on what follows after impact(assuming there was none)...but again I can't and wont judge that.

When a full car length is left on either side, that's hardly low percentage. That's what we call racing. He was fully along side, the other guy for whatever reason didn't know he was there and clocked him. To me, though a mistake was made, I call that a racing incident with the outside car being the cause of the incident.

Lange, really? "Rob could have backed off"? Why should he have backed out? Why didn't you back off? He had a whole car width (that is, until you shut the door on him) had a run and right beside you. Had you held your line there would not have been any contact.

Though I would like to see someone take out a plastic crapper. Unoccupied of course...

[Todd Tagget]

Close, I knew I was 100% in the clear, just wanted to put it up without putting spin on it so Mark could hear it from outside people he's not frustrated with.

Well he might be frustrated with this group now

[Rob Burgoon]

Though I would like to see someone take out a plastic crapper. Unoccupied of course...

[dstevens]

Thanks. That will be a good screen saver for work. My desktop is Eau Rouge on a cloudy day. Looks like a street car DE/TT. Bummer for that guy...

[Todd Green]

it's obvious from my video and Rob's who was in a better position to see both cars and avoid the contact. Rob could have backed off before turning in.

I'm sorry, but you are racing. You should not expect Rob or any of your competitors to back off. If he only had his nose up to your rear wheel, sure, but he was completely along side you. Your competitors will expect you to be watching your mirrors and leave them racing room. I don't see how you can blame him for your lack of situational awareness?

[MazdaSteve]

McLaren Orange is the color of our cars, but we were in no way responsible for the demo of the Waste Management crapper...

[john mueller]

BTW, your races sure are full of incidents down there!!!

SoCal NASA doesn't have many of these incidents anymore... Wonder why ?

[john mueller]

Mark's position:

"And I at least viewed both videos before jumping to any conclusions which tells me not only are you wrong but arrogant as well. I know you’ll never admit it but you just got way too aggressive and should have backed off but instead you made your turn as if I wasn’t even there and that’s what caused the accident. Pay attention to my hands and yours, I never turned left but you definitely turned right."

Ah, yeah... The track turns right to go over the hill...

[Rob Burgoon]

SoCal NASA doesn't have many of these incidents anymore... Wonder why ?

Everyone left?

I kid. One of the nicer things about NASA, I could have just tapped the shoulder of the NASA group leader or race director and had them address the confusion between events. With SCCA, it's formal protest or GTFO, so here we are.

[Bench Racer]

SoCal NASA doesn't have many of these incidents anymore... Wonder why ?

I only know what I read about NASA. The main reason you don't have "these incidents anymore" is that NASA is not overseen by a bunch of fossils. Also I do understand you have different overtaking rules.

Rob, within the SCCA had there been a protest by the other driver it's very likely the SOM fossils would have called IT, a racing incident. Ask me how I know.

[john mueller]

I only know what I read about NASA. The main reason you don't have "these incidents anymore" is that NASA is not overseen by a bunch of fossils. Also I do understand you have different overtaking rules.

HAHAHAHA. I'm kinda fossil'ish but I get ya... I think it's the rules and the consistent enforcement of them is working pretty good over/down here.