Jump to content

Photo

Collision dispute, who is at fault?


  • Please log in to reply
79 replies to this topic

#21
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

Dave, there are two videos in the first post. One is embedded, the other is just a link. My car is the purple car, Mark's is black with white cage and orange mirrors. Click the top link and skip to 1:10.


Rob, & to each thread there is a guiding light. Thank you for the re-alignment. In my very first post (after watching ONLY the embedded video) I was attempting to be sensitive to all. After watching the link video it confirms what I viewed in the embedded video.

Someone either didn't see you & someone was side drafting (err, side blocking) & you received the short end of the stick.
Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#22
Lange

Lange

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Location:S. California
  • Region:SoPac
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:14
Fortunately someone told me about this being posted otherwise I would never have known or had the opportunity to read everyone's replies. I do appreciate the feedback and see that I should have turned in sooner and left Rob with racing room. What I do not appreciate is how Rob has handled the incident. This should have been something that we could work out between us and unfortunately that hasn't happened. I think Rob is taking the position of an innocent bystander and although I do agree that I made a mistake, it's obvious from my video and Rob's who was in a better position to see both cars and avoid the contact. Rob could have backed off before turning in and let me know after the race what I had done wrong but he decided it was more important to be right then avoid the contact. Please do not misunderstand me I am taking responsibility for not having left sufficient racing room but could Rob have avoided the contact? Just like my Mom used to say to me and my brother "It takes two to fight".
Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+ Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#23
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

Fortunately someone told me about this being posted otherwise I would never have known or had the opportunity to read everyone's replies. I do appreciate the feedback and see that I should have turned in sooner and left Rob with racing room. What I do not appreciate is how Rob has handled the incident. This should have been something that we could work out between us and unfortunately that hasn't happened. I think Rob is taking the position of an innocent bystander and although I do agree that I made a mistake, it's obvious from my video and Rob's who was in a better position to see both cars and avoid the contact. Rob could have backed off before turning in and let me know after the race what I had done wrong but he decided it was more important to be right then avoid the contact. Please do not misunderstand me I am taking responsibility for not having left sufficient racing room but could Rob have avoided the contact? Just like my Mom used to say to me and my brother "It takes two to fight".


Dang, I thought you understood this.

Mark, either you came over intentionally or you completely weren't paying attention. Either way, this is 100% on you. If you don't like the idea of being passed around the outside of a gentle right hander, you need a new hobby.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#24
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91
Also, a freebie for any rookies reading along; if you go through a corner sideways or make a mistake, YOU'RE GONNA GET PASSED. If there ever was a time for checking those mirrors twice, it's after you make a mistake or miss a shift.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#25
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995
Mark,

Welcome to the forum! Shit happens, tempers flare, bombs are thrown, people react and defend...a pretty typical weekend of racing! Hindsight is 20/20...and in this case I think both drivers gain knowledge and move on with it. Not knowing the track, the power/speed of each of your cars, its hard to asses any mistake Rob made(or your logic) other than a pass that some may consider low percentage based on what follows after impact(assuming there was none)...but again I can't and wont judge that. Based on what your reaction is in the video, it's obvious you didn't see him. This you own and have said so...all you can do. Mistakes are made(rarely intentional)and everyone has to move on. Glass houses Rob...

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#26
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

other than a pass that some may consider low percentage based on what follows after impact(assuming there was none)...


Low percentage to make a safe successful pass under SCCA rules while nearly fully alongside on the inside of Phil Hill? O really...

Ron, when I screw up, I own up to it. I don't own any part of this collision, so I'm not going to say "gee golly, maybe I shouldn't try to pass people" in the interest of compromise for its own sake. My best bet for avoiding it would have been hitting him on the corner before I moved alongside so he would know I was there. That or letting the air out of his tires so he couldn't start.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#27
Ron Alan

Ron Alan

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,732 posts
  • Location:Northern CA
  • Car Year:1995
Wasn't being critical Rob...which is why I stated I can't comment...only putting out a potential hypothetical. I see no fault on your part, was just trying to figure why Mark wouldn't have expected you to be there. But as you said, after a tank slapper you better look in your mirrors. On to the next video :D

Ron

RAmotorsports

 

Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#28
Todd Tagget

Todd Tagget

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 441 posts
  • Location:Reno, NV
  • Region:SFR
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:42

Dang, I thought you understood this.

Mark, either you came over intentionally or you completely weren't paying attention. Either way, this is 100% on you. If you don't like the idea of being passed around the outside of a gentle right hander, you need a new hobby.

In defense of Rob I didn't read it like he was looking for a fight, more of a sanity check that he was in the clear. Re-read his first post,, "who's at fault ? " This remains a pretty tame forum (come over to some of the other car forums if you want to see flames)
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#29
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

In defense of Rob I didn't read it like he was looking for a fight, more of a sanity check that he was in the clear. Re-read his first post,, "who's at fault ? " This remains a pretty tame forum (come over to some of the other car forums if you want to see flames)


Close, I knew I was 100% in the clear, just wanted to put it up without putting spin on it so Mark could hear it from outside people he's not frustrated with.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#30
dstevens

dstevens

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,404 posts
  • Location:Vegas
  • Region:LVR

Not knowing the track, the power/speed of each of your cars, its hard to asses any mistake Rob made(or your logic) other than a pass that some may consider low percentage based on what follows after impact(assuming there was none)...but again I can't and wont judge that.


When a full car length is left on either side, that's hardly low percentage. That's what we call racing. He was fully along side, the other guy for whatever reason didn't know he was there and clocked him. To me, though a mistake was made, I call that a racing incident with the outside car being the cause of the incident.

Lange, really? "Rob could have backed off"? Why should he have backed out? Why didn't you back off? He had a whole car width (that is, until you shut the door on him) had a run and right beside you. Had you held your line there would not have been any contact.

Though I would like to see someone take out a plastic crapper. Unoccupied of course...

#31
Todd Tagget

Todd Tagget

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 441 posts
  • Location:Reno, NV
  • Region:SFR
  • Car Year:1991
  • Car Number:42

Close, I knew I was 100% in the clear, just wanted to put it up without putting spin on it so Mark could hear it from outside people he's not frustrated with.

Well he might be frustrated with this group now :bash:
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#32
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

Though I would like to see someone take out a plastic crapper. Unoccupied of course...


Posted Image
  • Alberto likes this
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#33
dstevens

dstevens

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,404 posts
  • Location:Vegas
  • Region:LVR
Thanks. That will be a good screen saver for work. My desktop is Eau Rouge on a cloudy day. Looks like a street car DE/TT. Bummer for that guy...

#34
Todd Green

Todd Green

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 569 posts
  • Location:SLC
  • Region:Utah
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:60

it's obvious from my video and Rob's who was in a better position to see both cars and avoid the contact. Rob could have backed off before turning in.


I'm sorry, but you are racing. You should not expect Rob or any of your competitors to back off. If he only had his nose up to your rear wheel, sure, but he was completely along side you. Your competitors will expect you to be watching your mirrors and leave them racing room. I don't see how you can blame him for your lack of situational awareness?

NASA Utah SM Director

We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Donor - Made PayPal donation Endurance race winner - Any endurance race wins Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata

#35
MazdaSteve

MazdaSteve

    Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts
  • Location:Cherryville, NC
  • Region:CCR
  • Car Year:1999
  • Car Number:04
McLaren Orange is the color of our cars, but we were in no way responsible for the demo of the Waste Management crapper...
  • AJ Roderick likes this
Seneca Motorsports

#36
john mueller

john mueller

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

BTW, your races sure are full of incidents down there!!!


SoCal NASA doesn't have many of these incidents anymore... Wonder why ? :whistling:
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#37
john mueller

john mueller

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

Mark's position:

"And I at least viewed both videos before jumping to any conclusions which tells me not only are you wrong but arrogant as well. I know you’ll never admit it but you just got way too aggressive and should have backed off but instead you made your turn as if I wasn’t even there and that’s what caused the accident. Pay attention to my hands and yours, I never turned left but you definitely turned right."

:spin:


Ah, yeah... The track turns right to go over the hill...
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+

#38
Rob Burgoon

Rob Burgoon

    Veteran Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,465 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Car Year:1995
  • Car Number:91

SoCal NASA doesn't have many of these incidents anymore... Wonder why ? :whistling:


Everyone left? :king:

I kid. One of the nicer things about NASA, I could have just tapped the shoulder of the NASA group leader or race director and had them address the confusion between events. With SCCA, it's formal protest or GTFO, so here we are.
Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations!

#39
Bench Racer

Bench Racer

    Different strokes for different folks : )

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,508 posts
  • Location:Wauwatosa, WI
  • Region:Milwaukee
  • Car Year:1990
  • Car Number:14

SoCal NASA doesn't have many of these incidents anymore... Wonder why ? :whistling:


I only know what I read about NASA. The main reason you don't have "these incidents anymore" is that NASA is not overseen by a bunch of fossils. Also I do understand you have different overtaking rules.

Rob, within the SCCA had there been a protest by the other driver it's very likely the SOM fossils would have called IT, a racing incident. Ask me how I know.
Broken record - You are starting to sound like a broken record. Donor - Made PayPal donation Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver

#40
john mueller

john mueller

    Veteran Member

  • SMembers
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,075 posts

I only know what I read about NASA. The main reason you don't have "these incidents anymore" is that NASA is not overseen by a bunch of fossils. Also I do understand you have different overtaking rules.


HAHAHAHA. I'm kinda fossil'ish but I get ya... I think it's the rules and the consistent enforcement of them is working pretty good over/down here.
We have a Winnah! - Won their 1st race... Congratulations! Series Champ - Won a points based series in a Spec Miata Bona fide - A bonafide Spec Miata driver Instigator - Made a topic or post that inspired other Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill - Survive the 25, NASA Thunderhill Make it Rain - Made Paypal donation of $100+




2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users