36 replies to this topic

[Brendan O]

The HPDE is a sucky way to learn racing IMO, dont get me wrong there are some good teachers there, but not many, and its luck of the draw, you could just as easily get a guy that couldnt drive his way out of a wet paper bag, I started in HPDE, it sucked but one great teacher got ahold of me, I was lucky.

Happy hollidays everyone!!!!! Drink a beer for me YOU know I will be drinking some for all of you...

I think HPDE is pretty good for starting out. With NASA, you can go from HPDE1 to HPDE4 which is almost like w2w - i don't think NASA SE requires a point by in HPDE 4 but i'm not sure. Then, after HPDE 4, you can move to TT. The problem with HPDE4 (and HPDE3 for that matter) is that you are thrown on the track with vette, GT3RS, M3 so it is a bit dicey in terms of the speed differences at end of a straight. After HPDE4 and TT you can go get comp license and do w2w. At this point you should be pretty experienced so the school should not be a problem. So I think HPDE is good way to increase your experience in a relatively structured manner. But you are correct about the track day instructors. Like anything in life, some folks are much better than others. Also, some people like instructing and others don't. You could find someone who "could" be an excellent instructor but they simply just don't want to be instructing - they are only there to save track fee money. I think you just have to be patient, ask around and eventually you will find one or two folks who can help you a lot at track days. But I still plan on getting a real coach - he is a pro driver and seems very nice.

[Brendan O]

sorry to say this i new you were going to hit when you came out of the pits YOU MUST GET YOU TRIRES UP TO TEMP FIRE ALL OF YOU COACHES NOW THEY WILL COST YOU MORE MONEY . second work on your down shifr blips you went from 5th to third real late turn 10 a . sorry im so cridical no temp in your tires thats the only thing

That is an important point i forgot to mention in my first post. I crashed on my second lap - i only did one lap and then i started pushing really hard. So yes - the Hoosiers were probably still cold - another dumb mistake.

Do you mean I should go from 5th to 3rd earlier in the braking zone? I guess you are saying that when i shifted, the RPM had already come down too much - i waited too long and was too slow when i shifted (3600 RPM, 65 mph).

[Brendan O]

The lower probability of getting arrested at an autocross somewhat offsets the reduced seat-time. Some really enjoy the challenge of auto-x and some don't, it's a different game to be sure, but a couple spins taught me what not to do in a Miata (with no walls to hit). Auto-x is definitely a different challenge.

One thing to do is seek out auto-x's with lower attendance where they do fun-runs after the competition - there are also auto-x practice days and schools - for instance at Daytona a couple weeks ago they had an auto-x on the kart track during the club race - looked like they did an hour or two of fun-runs after the auto-x for whoever wanted to hang out and spend the tire. But if you want to be good at racing, never give up a day at the race track for a day auto-xing.

Fast hands to correct a slide does not diminish the need for quote-unquote slow smooth hands in normal steering to keep weight transfer under control (as Jackie instructs). If you're going to hit something slippery (curb, oil, mufflers, paint, dirt, etc.) straighten the car before you hit it and then go back to turning- the amount you need to straighten it is learned through practice.

Watch some of Danny's rain laps such as http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knIaZDC5bzw&feature=relmfu or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EFff9Wlnps&feature=relmfu for good sideways entertainment too...

I may try another AX but first I'll see if i can get 30 min of drift practice on my own in an abandoned lot without getting a ticket - that seems like better use of my time than 8 hrs roasting in the summer sun, trying not to get run over etc.

I have watched those videos - I'll watch again.

[Brendan O]

Looks like you put in waaay too much steering input.

Agreed - wish i could take it back now.

[Brendan O]

Brendan
First and foremost, I'm sorry about the car. I crashed missing T1 trackout and on the wet grass into the wall( there were no tires there then) in my third race ever, in 2004 ECR lap 7. The shop that installed my new Sunbelt timed it with the wrong timing mark and I lost the engine the next weekend. So in two weekends I went through a car and a $5500 engine. I was ready to quit. Very depressing besides being expensive.

As far as wreck, it looks like you went full throttle as rear wheel bounced over curb, causing the spin. Your hands were a little slow on the correction.

Keep your head up. EVERY ONE on this forum, ( and I do mean EVERYONE) has done worse. Learn from it and try not to do it again.
Good luck, sorry about the car

Webb,
I learned how to drive doing PCA events and DE's, I still instruct whenever I can because I believe i owe them for the education they gave me, literally.

Also, I agree, Ryan at OPM is a great asset!

Jim

Jim,
Thanks for kind words.

The crash was a shock to the system. The build was a big outlay of cash. I was also really excited because the first time with car was a three day weekend. NASA SE on Sat/Sun and then Chin track day on Monday - Chin offers a ton of track time (but it's expensive). So as the car was being built over 3 months, I kept saying to myself: "Just enjoy it for three days - don't push too hard. You've been able to do 8 weekends without much of an incident so whatever you do, do NOT wreck" (aside - i usually don't talk to myself). Since I had never wrecked before, I was sure i could go three days without wrecking because wrecking a brand new car would be my worst nightmare. So when i hit - i just sat there - i really couldn't believe what had just happened. It was almost like my brain was not processing what had just occurred. I had payed for Sat, Sun, Mon and crashed Sun morning - no refunds for Mon. I then had to try get the car on the trailer (no winch and crooked front wheels) and take it back to OPM.

So then OPM fixed - they did a great job but it was another big outlay. So my next Sat/Sun event in April was at Barber and the engine exploded second session on Sat - again no refunds. Why not Sun morning or Sun afternoon or even late sat afternoon - why EARLY on sat??? At that point i was ready to give up. Way, way too much money and time. I have spent money for 5 track days, travel, hotel etc. By all accounts I should have around 11 or 12 hours of track time. Instead, I have less than 2.

But ... I've decided to soldier on. I will try do the engine swap myself - it's going to take a while since i am a beginner.

Any how - thanks again for encouragement.

PS The best part about Ryan at OPM (besides his knowledge) is that he knows the right things to say. After the crash, he didn't talk non-stop. But the few words he did say really made me feel better. And he is a genius at getting bent cars on trailers.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

and tom is really getting good at putting motors in way to go tom lol

[High Chair]

Brendan,
Your car looked good and probably does again; OPM does good work. I don't envy you learning to drive at Road Atlanta as it is one of the most difficult yet fun tracks we race. You will find that timing is everything in these cars. Your hands and feet have to work together or you will find another wall before long. I would ask Tom Fowler for advice after you come off the track in the future as he is one hell of a driver and would be able to steer you in the right direction. All I can say is take baby steps and build your speed through experience.

[Andrew Charbonneau]

Brendan,
Your car looked good and probably does again; OPM does good work. I don't envy you learning to drive at Road Atlanta as it is one of the most difficult yet fun tracks we race. You will find that timing is everything in these cars. Your hands and feet have to work together or you will find another wall before long. I would ask Tom Fowler for advice after you come off the track in the future as he is one hell of a driver and would be able to steer you in the right direction. All I can say is take baby steps and build your speed through experience.

= PLUS ONE

[Andrew Charbonneau]

= PLUS ONE

TOM FOWLER IS ONE OF THE BEST EVEN IF HE has to run around the shower to get wet

[Brendan O]

Brendan,
Your car looked good and probably does again; OPM does good work. I don't envy you learning to drive at Road Atlanta as it is one of the most difficult yet fun tracks we race. You will find that timing is everything in these cars. Your hands and feet have to work together or you will find another wall before long. I would ask Tom Fowler for advice after you come off the track in the future as he is one hell of a driver and would be able to steer you in the right direction. All I can say is take baby steps and build your speed through experience.

I agree about RA. Yes, it is fun but, man, those walls are close. What bothers me is that i have been able to do T3 much faster and smoother when i had less experience and less safety gear in the car. Then, when i got car built, due to some comments in classroom, I tried something new and didn't execute very well. I need to focus on fundamentals (good line) before trying stupid new stuff like changing the line, using more curbing etc. I also think i was a little over confident with T3. I thought i was doing it well and that it would be hard for me to really screw up. I was also not focused mentally. I forgot that it was just lap two and i was on tired, cold Hoos.

Any how, thanks for good advice. I will keep learning but with some good coaching so that i can get faster without damaging the car - at least for a while.

And yes - Tom at OPM has been very helpful and always has excellent driving advice.

[Brendan O]

TOM FOWLER IS ONE OF THE BEST

+1

[Jim Boemler]

What bothers me is that i have been able to do T3 much faster and smoother when i had less experience and less safety gear in the car. Then, when i got car built, due to come comments in classroom, I tried something new and didn't execute very well. I need to focus on fundamentals (good line) before trying stupid new stuff like changing the line, using more curbing etc. I also think i was a little over confident with T3. I thought i was doing it well and that it would be hard for me to really screw up. I was also not focused mentally. I forgot that it was just lap two and i was on tired, cold Hoos.

We've been focused on your driving, which is the right place to start, but don't overlook the possibility that your car is part of the problem, since it's a new build. You might find that dialing in a little understeer will help keep you out of trouble.

[Brendan O]

We've been focused on your driving, which is the right place to start, but don't overlook the possibility that your car is part of the problem, since it's a new build. You might find that dialing in a little understeer will help keep you out of trouble.

You are not the first to suggest that and I have been talking with Tom on that exact subject.

Thanks for good advice

[Lin]

Hang in there Brendan. The guys in the SE Div told me I would spin the car a lot learning to drive it fast and I have including a nice spin in the start at PBIR a few weekends back... Dooaah!! It takes some mileage to learn how to feel when the car is getting lose and get the feeling of how to catch it. Get some of the more experienced guys up at RA and Roebling to help you learn the car. A bunch of the SM crew in Florida helped me get going last year and to them I owe a debt I can never repay. We used lead/follow, Traqmate and Hero Cams to compare and make adjustments to the driving. The other thing that helped me was watching YouTube videos of Danny Steyn and LD Mendez (LDAdrenaline). In their videos you can see their hands and the constant small corrections. Me, I am kind of a mid packer but given the level of SM racing in this division, I'll take it. Try to get comfortable being very close to other cars.

Nice car.

[Brendan O]

Hey Lin,
I hope that Ferrari is yours Thanks for kind words - I do watch a lot of YT videos and I will get instruction/coaching this year. In the YT videos i do notice a lot of small hand corrections so i know i am not really at 10/10 yet - my hands just sit there. Hopefully this summer/fall, there will be more speed but less stupid crashes into walls. I'd like to get to low 48s at RA this year.

Thanks for nice car comment - OPM does great work.

[Lin]

I am the SM terrorizing the Ferrari's in the corners Going fast in a straight line does not impress this crowd! Oh, if you can swing the cost, Skip Barber is very good and an easy path to your racing license.

[Brendan O]

But with Skippy, i can't drive my SM during the school can I? Wouldn't it be better to take a school where you are in your own SM? Unless i wreck or get hit during school - then skippy car is better