428 replies to this topic

[Caveman-kwebb99]

They are known as deviants.
Kyle is clearly on the far end of the curve.

LOL, you a funny texans.

[Ernie Jr.]

When are we going to see some incar videos from the race?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Yeah what ever happened to danny boy? I was looking forward to counting up all those thumbs ups, and how many drinks out of the drink bottle, I have been dying to know if there is beer in the bottle...

[Tom Sager]

the gauge needs to fit into the valve guide to be accurate. The gauge works fine EXCEPT when used in a worn valve guide.

So Drago and Berry should up with worn valve guides? In fairness to the champ I will not post anything else until all the info is out.

How many of us SM racers if we pulled our head right now and measured 16 valves would all be found to be within this tiny spec using that tool on every valve/guide?

[Ron Alan]

My guess is this same thing may have happened last year with the tool...but when measured with a caliper as a double check, last years failed while this years passed? Would this be correct? Obvious many had to already know this was an issue with the tool...probably why a formal protest wasn't required as I'm sure discussions were on going with tech and the stewards...they knew they would lose. A tool like this is designed to be fool proof that anyone could use...looks like it isn't...back to the drawing board!

Love your loyalty Jamie...and AC's driving! But the verdict is in and done...like it or not. Get on Team Florida for next year and run blocker/hitman for the Champ. But the best team doesn't always win the Superbowl!

One thing for sure, SCCA National better come up with a definitive yes or no to bump drafting...because getting penelized for it this year at the regional level was BS after watching the runoffs(year after year!)

[LarryKing]

if there is beer in the bottle...

Please. Danny is a classy guy. I'm thinking a single malt, or possibly Beefeaters

[Alex Bolanos]

Alex I am no machinest, engine builder, tech guru, or benchracer... I also have no bone to pick as you know i LOVE mexicans

You know the Hispanics love you too you landscaping motherheffer =)

But the answer is right there above, nowhere did anyone say that anyones specific head has .006 slop inb the valve guide, it is simply stated that the tool has .oo6 slop built into it.

Drago's quote clearly says that there is .006 of slop in a NEW stock valve guide, unless I read wrong?

Since I am but a mere caveman, who can barely read or type, I have to leave the question for other much smarter than I is that to much slop or to little slop built into said tool?

If that is the tollerance and it is a known tollerance, I dont see how this differs from a minimum wieght of the crank or the rods etc etc. anyone can build said tool as designed and build their heads accordingly if they so wish. I am nothing but astonished at DDG claim that the builders dont have access to this tool, if they can build a motor producing 127-130hp with the new RP, my caveman brain say they are surely smart enough to make this tool at their own machine shops...

You've basically touched on my reasoning for asking these questions. If the rules say you can go up to X and the shed has a tool that adds .006" and .003", I want to show up next time with X+ .009" on every valve cut. Wouldn't you? This isn't a witch hunt, Drago is the champ for a reason. He had a great car, race strategy, luck, lapped cleanly, and none of his sensors failed (bah!). I'm asking questions so that I can step up my "program" (to borrow a Steyn phrase), if those questions make people mud their pants and get defensive that's not my problem.

[Alex Bolanos]

How many of us SM racers if we pulled our head right now and measured 16 valves would all be found to be within this tiny spec using that tool on every valve/guide?

Using your logic why even have a spec if we're allowed to deviate? Tell me how much I can deviate and I'll make sure my stuff is right there, isn't that what we do with compression ratio already?

[Caveman-kwebb99]

You know the Hispanics love you too you landscaping motherheffer =)



Drago's quote clearly says that there is .006 of slop in a NEW stock valve guide, unless I read wrong?



You've basically touched on my reasoning for asking these questions. If the rules say you can go up to X and the shed has a tool that adds .006" and .003", I want to show up next time with X+ .009" on every valve cut. Wouldn't you? This isn't a witch hunt, Drago is the champ for a reason. He had a great car, race strategy, luck, lapped cleanly, and none of his sensors failed (bah!). I'm asking questions so that I can step up my "program" (to borrow a Steyn phrase), if those questions make people mud their pants and get defensive that's not my problem.

Ok Alex I guess I didnt catch part, although i am not sure that is what he meant. I think the .006 comes from the fact that the tool has .003 each side as you would turn the tool in said hole, rather than the .003 plus .006 you are thinking. Again I am nothing but landscaping cave dweller, so I cannot say one way or the other, and I dont feel liek bothering Jim with the question, If you dont know his number I am happy to furnish you with it.

To answer your question if I could build bigger relief cuts than the spec because of a tool allowance I would yes! only problem I see is this tool in question will no longer be used, so I think If I wanted the Danny up my program... I would be calling Sam Henry with an order for the new tool so that I was absolutly for sure that when I enlarged all my relief cuts that I would not fail a tech shed inspection with the new tool!

You are spot on about how, the championship was won. After hearing much about this from many that were involved, This championship unlike some others in past years that Bennet alluded to was Really won on the TRACK, rather in the shed.

The most important question I think that needs answers is How much does this tool cost From Sam Henry, and when will it be availabe? How much slop will it allow? I think if you had several heads laying around you would take the new tool around measureing as many different heads as possible and recording the resluts. then and only then you may find how many .00x you may or may not be able to get away with.

[Tom Sager]

Using your logic why even have a spec if we're allowed to deviate? Tell me how much I can deviate and I'll make sure my stuff is right there, isn't that what we do with compression ratio already?

Not my point at all. How many heads were checked with THAT guage in all of 2012 or 2011 for that matter? My point is that while we all probably feel our motors have been built to the limit or within the spec, we've barely ever measured any especially after there is some time on the head. Just a guess on my part but given how the measuring tool has been described I think it's possible that many heads would fail if put to the same test. Agree that the specs need to be enforced tightly but if we're going to do that then we better have a very reliable means to measure.

[Chris70]

Last year at the run offs our head passed tech with the same tool , no questions whatsoever, measured on all 16 back cuts with room to spare.
Ademir
S.A.C. racing

[davew]

The drawing for that tool has been on the SCCA website for a loooong time. I had a set made and I know that every valve on my engines where tested. Any compitent machinist can make them for little money. The new tools may cost a little more. We will have to wait and see what Sam comes up with

Dave

[Bench Racer]

I had a set made and I know that every valve on my engines where tested. Dave

Dave, when you had your tool made did you allow the machinist the le-way with the -.0050 stem diameter or did you have a tool stem diameter that made more sence to the hole diameter in the valve guide?

Did your tool stem when inserted for checking travel the full length of the valve guide?

No dog, just curious.

[FTodaro]

Dave, when you had your tool made did you allow the machinist the le-way with the -.0050 stem diameter or did you have a tool stem diameter that made more sence to the hole diameter in the valve guide?

Did your tool stem when inserted for checking travel the full length of the valve guide?

No dog, just curious.

Dave has said on this forum many times that he is NOT comfortable talking about his tool.

[Bench Racer]

Dave has said on this forum many times that he is NOT comfortable talking about his tool.

I had a set made and I know that every valve on my engines where tested. Any compitent machinist can make them for little money. The new tools may cost a little more. We will have to wait and see what Sam comes up with

Dave

Whatever, I'll ask him next weekend at the track.

[Alex Bolanos]

Whatever, I'll ask him next weekend at the track.

Quit asking questions, fall in line soldier!


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[Todd Lamb]

Whatever, I'll ask him next weekend at the track.

I think Frank's post had a little more mind/gutter ratio than you interpreted.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

I think Frank's post had a little more mind/gutter ratio than you interpreted.

No crap sherlock

[Armando Ramirez]

LOL - Same thought I had.

I think Frank's post had a little more mind/gutter ratio than you interpreted.

[William Keeling]

this all kinda funny as the SCCA would never bounce and board member or CRB member -- it is just not going to happen