87 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

A counter-point to your generalization:

Was that not a positive statement about the Majors?
Is a forum not a place for the open exchange of opinions?
Your site - cancel my privileges at will.

Just the type of negativity and bitterness I was referring to .. I don't ever remember asking you not to express your opinions or asking you not to participate, certainly never mentioned cancelling your privileges I was just making an observation and giving "MY opinion" You can still search the old site and see exactly what I am referring to, look for yourself.

I did notice you are always positive on Danica and Saul Speedwell, not sure what that says about anyone, but it can't be good!

In all seriousness, just seems you are miserable in this class, on this forum and with most of the people in the class or who participate in the class. You never appeared that way ( at least to me) in the past. You are free to post whatever you want. I sincerely hope whatever has got you turned so sour towards the class improves.

[pat slattery]

Denny
You have become so negative, sarcastic and pessimistic about everything . I haven't seen a positive or constructive post from you in so long, I can't even remember. Very sad, back in the Old Specmiata.com days the tone of your posts was so different, your posts are unrecognizable from the guy that posted then. It is sad, your obviously not happy with the class, where it is now and where it is headed. From the sidelines, you look like a guy that is clearly not having fun in the class, maybe it's time for a break? It seems to me that more than SM and SCCA rules are driving you to this level of frustration and negativity? My sincere hope is that SM or whatever has gotten you so down and negative turns around for the better.
Jim

Denny, that is just Jims way of blowing you off
If you don't agree with Jim, your being Negative

[Jim Drago]

Denny, that is just Jims way of blowing you off
If you don't agree with Jim, your being Negative

Now Pat that is not true, Denny never used to be a crusty, grouchy old bastard. . You have been that way since I have known you And I have never blown you off even in the peak of your anti 99 days ( or are we still in the peak?)

[Bench Racer]

Denny never used to be a crusty, grouchy old bastard. .

Thank you Denny, someone must fill that ^ roll.

[MPR22]

Just the type of negativity and bitterness I was referring to .. I don't ever remember asking you not to express your opinions or asking you not to participate, certainly never mentioned cancelling your privileges I was just making an observation and giving "MY opinion" You can still search the old site and see exactly what I am referring to, look for yourself.

I did notice you are always positive on Danica and Saul Speedwell, not sure what that says about anyone, but it can't be good!

In all seriousness, just seems you are miserable in this class, on this forum and with most of the people in the class or who participate in the class. You never appeared that way ( at least to me) in the past. You are free to post whatever you want. I sincerely hope whatever has got you turned so sour towards the class improves.

http://forum.specmia...43;t=003776;p=0

[MPR22]

Abbreviated history of the same subject.



2000 http://forum.miata.n...ad.php?t=126484

2004 http://forum.specmia...43;t=001340;p=0

2006 http://forum.specmia...26;t=000314;p=0

2010 http://forum.specmia...=2;t=005014;p=0

Interesting how several people suggested the current rule set way back when and we still have the same arguments today.

[Keith Novak]

Interesting how several people suggested the current rule set way back when and we still have the same arguments today.

Airing of Motor Parity Grievances marks the official start of the silly season. (Unless Pat see's his shadow and it's 6 months earlier.)

You can tell the end of the season is close by the spring post-race reports that can be summarized as, "This year's spec tire has no grip and flat spots easily."

[SaulSpeedwell]

I did notice you are always positive on Danica and Saul Speedwell, not sure what that says about anyone, but it can't be good!

Easy, now, or I'll remind everyone how you ruined the class

With Denny and Pat, I think it is a GLDiv thing ... everyone is a jerk online, then in real life they are nice .. and with all the other Divisions, it is the opposite, plus they cave in your fenders.

[Jim Drago]

Easy, now, or I'll remind everyone how you ruined the class AGAIN

I fixed that for you

With Denny and Pat, I think it is a GLDiv thing ... everyone is a jerk online, then in real life they are nice .. and with all the other Divisions, it is the opposite, plus they cave in your fenders.

That is funny, true, but Funny!

[38bfast]

Moose AND Squirrel are some great people. I always look forward to spending time with them at the track. The last thing I would label Denny is crusty. He is just voicing what most believe, That the pointy end of SM is costing way more than it did in years past. I don't think that anyone can argue that. Especially when it comes to a 1.6.

[MPR22]

Moose AND Squirrel are some great people. I always look forward to spending time with them at the track. The last thing I would label Denny is crusty. He is just voicing what most believe, That the pointy end of SM is costing way more than it did in years past. I don't think that anyone can argue that. Especially when it comes to a 1.6.

Read the threads I attached. The cost at the pointy end very early on included a pro motor. Yes there have been some rules creep with regard to little knick knacks, SD exhaust, FP regulator, SP induction intake. Oh BTW the 99 needs all of those too except the intake. I built my 1.6 for 15k. That's no pro motor just a home built using the rules set out in 2011. It can run at the front. Doubt it? Just ask anyone who has raced me in it, JP3, Luke Bickham, Chris Haldeman....

Running at the front costs money, period! Yes the days of rolling up with no track specific set up and 12 heat cycle tires(except MO) are gone, have been since the class went national. Blame them for making the class so succesfull the best amatures in the country join and make the class stronger and deeper every year. Yes overall numbers are dropping but that's directly related to the economy not the health or cost of the class. The car is the cheap part!

[Jim Drago]

Moose AND Squirrel are some great people. The last thing I would label Denny is crusty.

I agree completely, I was just busting Pats chops and wasn't meant at Denny, caught in crossfire. I agree with Mark, Denny is way different in person then on here.

[Dan Tiley]

Anywho... getting back on the original topic of why don't we run "sealed" engines, I have a little data from my findings from last month's engine builds to share....

In November I built 4 new Ti-Speed Engines (probably half that of what some of the bigger names did). I whistled all 4 engines before making any cuts. I had one that whistled 8.9, one that was 9.5 (SM legal limit for 99's), and the others were in the 9.2-9.3 range. Which one would you like sealed up? I know which one I'd like to seal! When I was done with all of my work, all 4 engines left at 9.5, as I'm sure they would have with any pro-builder.

So, you could buy 1 pro-built engine in the $5-7k range and know that you are at the legal limit or buy 4 crate engines from Mazda, in hopes to find the one that actually reaches the legal compression ratio limit. Note, Mazda actually doesn't offer '99 crates anymore, but just for conversation's sake we'll say they do. Your other option then would be to buy 4 crate engines from Mazda at $3500 each ($14000 total), in search of the outlying screamer.

Now I use compression ratio as just one example. The same thing could be said for what what the rule sets allow us (engine builders) to do to correct for core shift, again equalizing the builds. There are several more examples. My point is, pro-engine building is here to stay. The good news for the racers is that there's competition out there amongst builders so NOBODY is able to sell $10000+ engines, which is extremely commonplace in most other series.

[Qik Nip]

Dan, your point is well made (as is Jim's and Danny Steyn's). Regardless of the rule set, racers will work every angle. What Denny is saying (I think) is that if we had never tinkered with the rule set and had remained with stock air boxers, one exhaust, etc., the cost of running anywhere in the field would be lower. As one who spent more in the three seasons past than in the seven that preceeded it (and with the related performance to go with it), I can attest (no surprise) to it costing more to go faster.
Unfortunately the pointy end isn't a static location because everyone steps up to the next prep level to stay there while others work (and spend) to get there.
As Frank said, life ain't fair, but competition is fun!
Rick
P.S. Anybody want to buy a pile of flowed exhaust manifolds?

[William Keeling]

How about we allow the V8roadsters subframe with the 99+ steering rack and allow 1.8 swap to 2001+ with custom wiring harness and ecu. That way all cars can upgrade subframe and 95% of the cars would upgrade engines. We all get to spend money, Yeah!!!!

why stop there LS356/480

[Jim Drago]

I have some really bad news for some of you guys.. The good old days might be as good as we thought they were If we went back to the good old days rules and implemented them now. We would easily make 5-10 more hp than we are now and very little would be able to be teched. Every time we tighten the rules, the cost to go faster goes up even more.
As I have said 1000x, we are a victim of our own success. No body developed cars in the beginning.. then one guy felt he lost on power and it ratcheted up from there to where we are now.

[KentCarter]

I remember the good old days.... I had a Sunbelt. Everyone else had the original motor that their junkyard cars came with. THOSE were the good old days!!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Maybe we can go back to the good ollll days just for a year???? then everyone who insesently complains can decide if the good oll days are really that good after all?

I have to say I wish Govt Motors would go back to building the 67 Camaro SS. but thats about as far as the good old days go for me. How about the good new days. Things change and its best to change with them. Maybe we should just go back to the good old days where we race our covered wagons and we are chaced by engines.

[George Munson]

Wow, the good old days! Where ground cams and $1000.00 clutches ruled our class. I have followed the growth of our class for years now and I can say under the current spec'ed out rule set we are closer than ever. The fact that an engine builder can now take a toad and turn it into a prince is a big overall cost savings to everyone. I come from Karting and sealed engines. We would spend $2500.00 to $3,000.00 for a 125 cc, single cylinder Rotax engine and this was in 06 and 07. Those engines would last about 30 hours before you had to send them back for a refresh. At today's current pricing of $5200.00 to $6900.00 to have our four cylinder engine be brought up to the maximum spec's with all the refresh parts this seems quite reasonable to me. Not to mention all the old engines polluting our landfills. I for one have a great amount of respect for the efforts that have been put forth to insure we have the best class ever.

[Jamz14]

I agree with George. And that 3K for a single cylinder engine doesn't account for the guys that bought 5 of them to find the one with a 1/10th more HP. I'd rather the wealthy guys spend a small fortune that they are spending anyway, to squeak out a minor difference in HP under the current rule set. This gives guys with boat loads of talent at least a fighting chance to see the podium if all the stars align properly, even though they might only be spending a fraction of what others are.