183 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

I wish SCCA could control the starts at Road America as well as they did at the Nationwide race.

 

I thought the starts were actually quite fair this weekend? 

[Ron Alan]

Not sure what you mean on the issues, I cant remember where Todd started (outside top 10 for sure), but he got to p5 at the finish, and could see P1 on the front of the train...

 

It was a more determined drive then even Danny's from saturday, and that is really saying something.  The issues here are the issues...  

 

 

 

We all spend alot of money on this sport, most of us a bit high strung, and our passions often show.  We all want advantages on each other, and we all try hard to develop those.  At the end of the day Most butnot all of us just want a fair fight without pushing past the grey and into  to the black. 

 

I know all the parties involved in this discussion, all are good people and I have confidence that the issue/issues will be worked out in their enirety!

 

I suspect this conversation will be coninued out of the sight of most... 

To clarify what I see(or think i see!), The yellow car is slow in(and into) the corners, losing a couple car lengths to those in front and to Todd behind...but is early to the gas and has a good drive out. As much as the yellow car maintains the draft and moves back up to those in front of him, the car behind Todd seems to do the same thing. This makes me wonder if the weak link is Todds car? Just an observation and possibility...All I was pointing out. 

[Blake Thompson]

I thought the starts were actually quite fair this weekend? 

 

 

You were in the front of the pack, the back was a mess.  But no, the motors wound up well before the flag dropped.

[pat slattery]

Wasn't at the Sprints this year, referring to past experiences,but guys are on the gas about as they are starting up the hill, with guys hanging back in the middle holding up drivers trying to get a run.

[Tom Sager]

The problem with Road America is that in our low HP cars, the starter has no idea if anyone is on the gas or not because there just isn't much contrast between full throttle and part throttle up the hill.  

[Michael Novak]

I started 23 and was WOT at the bottom of the hill or somewhere around it. It was that or get run over. I laughed when I got the green-green-green on the radio.

[Danny Steyn]

Pat, for the last 3 years now our entire class has gone WOT at the base of the hill when the pace car has pulled sufficiently off the track. Pole Sitter has dictated when the field goes.

 

Strictly this is not right, but it does for the most part keep a decently formed field going into T1. If you wait until you get the green the first row will be swallowed up by the time they get to T1, or even worse yet, they will be slaughtered by the 7th row - just as happened this year in SRF at the sprints - just imagine how Schoefield feels about this start

 

 

even better view here

 

 

[DrDomm]

I don't understand that SRF start.  Who was the lone SRF that was right behind the pacecar?  Assuming he was the polesitter, then he triggered the green flag.  Once he gets it, then those guys behind can go.  Not sure why the camera car driver (Schoefield?) didn't hang with the pacecar/polesitter.

 

Am I missing something?

[Blake Thompson]

Wasn't at the Sprints this year, referring to past experiences,but guys are on the gas about as they are starting up the hill, with guys hanging back in the middle holding up drivers trying to get a run.

 

stand at 5 or 14 and cock your ear toward the base of the hill.  Put your eye on the flag and watch.  You'll hear those motors long before the flag drops

 

But as ugly as the back of the pack was (c'mon dudes, this is an important national) I can't believe they started it at all.   The front runners were UNDER the starter stand and there were still boogers coming out of Bill Mitchell.

[Blake Thompson]

and the poor bastards in the 3' laptimes had no idea.  They were probably still warming tires.

 

Pat, for the last 3 years now our entire class has gone WOT at the base of the hill when the pace car has pulled sufficiently off the track. Pole Sitter has dictated when the field goes.

[Bench Racer]

I don't understand that SRF start.  Who was the lone SRF that was right behind the pacecar?  Assuming he was the polesitter, then he triggered the green flag.  Once he gets it, then those guys behind can go.  Not sure why the camera car driver (Schoefield?) didn't hang with the pacecar/polesitter.

 

Am I missing something?

Yes, this was a total cluster f_ ck created by SCCA Enterprise Inc and the SCCA. They have what the call a Gen3 car their testing this year at the expense of their normal owners/drivers. Did I forget to say testing while starting at the front of the field. The Gen3 car was behind the pace car and the normal field was split. IIRC the Gen3  car qualified approx 4 seconds faster than the pole car.

[RussMcB]

I've read on a few different forums that the SRF race had a BIG mixup when they allowed a new Gen3 SRF (not yet legal for SCCA) start up front, kind of as an exhibition.  There was a plan for a safe, organized start, but unfortunately not everyone got the message.  When the Gen3 SRF took off (as was expected), other people, including pit road crew, thought the race had started.  Many non-front row racers were on the gas long before the REAL polesitter had started to accelerate.

I don't understand that SRF start.  Who was the lone SRF that was right behind the pacecar?  Assuming he was the polesitter, then he triggered the green flag.  Once he gets it, then those guys behind can go.  Not sure why the camera car driver (Schoefield?) didn't hang with the pacecar/polesitter.

 

Am I missing something?

[Danny Steyn]

and the poor bastards in the 3' laptimes had no idea.  They were probably still warming tires.

 

 

Blake - I agree that the guys at the back are getting a VERY RAW DEAL, but IMHO this is more due to us as a class (especially at the front) not lining up 2 x 2 before we get to Canada Corner. Guys still insist on swerving side to side warming up there tires all the way to T13, and this makes it really hard for the guys at the back to close up the gaps. It was even worse for the guys at the back at COTA who were not even at T20, when we were going into T1

 

We had a Spec Miata drivers meeting at last years Sprints (to deal with the Cluster F&*k from 2011), and I specifically asked drivers to do it and we had a much better start last year than this year. The front row still went early but the gaps were much tighter.

[suck fumes]

That spec ford guy musta have been pissed! Haha that's sucks. Lose the lead at the start and get wrecked in the first lap!

[Jim Drago]

That spec ford guy musta have been pissed! Haha that's sucks. Lose the lead at the start and get wrecked in the first lap!

I agree! What a mess. Something tells me those guys would have much preferred any of the last 15 SM starts there.

 

What Danny said is 100% correct.  If you don't start rolling on the power up the hill, you will hit turn one outside the top 5-6.

[Bench Racer]

I've never been on the starters stand at Road America. BUT, when we look at the rules it would appear the SCCA does not follow their own written rules. From the videos the front row drivers can not view the starter when the start flag drops, therefore how can the starter clearly see the front row. Or the first "X" rows.

 

"The starter SHALL be safely located where the MAJORITY of the drivers in the field can clearly see him as they approach his position. He shall remain motionless, with green flag hidden, and no other flags visible."

 

Are there other tracks with this same issue?

[DrDomm]

Yes, this was a total cluster f_ ck created by SCCA Enterprise Inc and the SCCA. They have what the call a Gen3 car their testing this year at the expense of their normal owners/drivers. Did I forget to say testing while starting at the front of the field. The Gen3 car was behind the pace car and the normal field was split. IIRC the Gen3  car qualified approx 4 seconds faster than the pole car.

 

 

I've read on a few different forums that the SRF race had a BIG mixup when they allowed a new Gen3 SRF (not yet legal for SCCA) start up front, kind of as an exhibition.  There was a plan for a safe, organized start, but unfortunately not everyone got the message.  When the Gen3 SRF took off (as was expected), other people, including pit road crew, thought the race had started.  Many non-front row racers were on the gas long before the REAL polesitter had started to accelerate.

 

Wow!

[Michael Novak]

Spreading out the pack on the start is a good thing IMO. I started 23, but I was very happy to come through the first turn and not get wrecked---I think I was within 2-3 spots of my starting position in corner one which is how it should be. I was in a postion that normally has lots of contact. Slow starts produce wrecks in my book

[davew]

There is a fairly simple fix for this. Put start judges on the "Cat" bridge. If the front row is ahead of the pace car, there is a no start. Or the offending car is black-flagged.

 

Preferably, I would like to see a seperate "pace car entrance" to the pit lane added as far up the straightaway as possible. 1/2 a mile between when the pace car has to enter pit lane and the starters stand is begging for problems.

 

Dave

[Chad Martin]

NASA or SCCA, club racing starts are a complete free-for-all