26 replies to this topic

[Randy Thieme]

Terrell has been asked to run for Oregon Region's Road Racing director.  Please consider giving him your vote. 

[Keith Novak]

Will he do something about drivers who cause body damage every time they race?

[Randy Thieme]

I'm sure he will as long as it's being reported.

[Terrell Garrett]

Keith,

It iis my assumption at this point that the position holds some power over the steward but I really don't know how much. There are a couple of things to remember here. First, those stewards have been doing it a long time and are pretty good at it. They are also unpaid volunteers doing the best they can and are not perfect. Kicking them around is not the solution. Gently nudging is more appropriate.

The next issue is there were to my understanding no real protests. I also got hit but after reviewing my video decided that I had some small level of contribution, therefore no protest. From my understanding in almost every situation there was some question involved and at least there was some level of bad luck involved. Considering this, how do you deal with a string of these situations with no clear rule and no advisory letters filed as suggested by the stewards earlier this year? Doesn't leave many tools in the bag for the stewards and both you and I are at fault for not giving them those tools.

Perhaps this is a situation where the Road Racing Director brings the parties face to face and tries to work it out. The people to whom you refer are not bad guys and maybe just need to see a little less red mist. Obviously, if the problem continues there has to be clear and decisive action.

How's that for a gun toting politician's answer?

[Kyle Keenan]

Terrell would be a great RR director. Anything to get him off the track and out of my mirrors

There's been a lot of odd incidents this year, namely drivers getting yelled at by stewards for passing me under yellow, but never once got approached by stewards to hear my side of the incident. So someone attempts murder, you hear both sides right? Confused me for sure, I know that if the stewards took the time to hear my side (or even watch my video) they'd view the incident differently.
 

I also don't care for how you've got to pay money to even get a steward to listen to you in regards to an incident on track. ICSCC, the stewards come find you and discuss what happened even if no protest is filed; They're more interested in making sure a driver is alright and then addressing the situation at hand. If a guy flips me off, and proceeds to run me off the road, I shouldn't have to pay $50 to have a steward ask if I'm ok.



 

[Bruce Wilson]

While I agree with all of the comments so far, let's be careful not to put too much weight on Terrell's shoulders quite yet.  Think of the RRD as part of the executive branch, with stewards being part of the judicial branch.  The two talk (and listen to each other), but at the same time respect each other's jurisdiction.  As a member of the Board, it took me a year of intense observation before I started to understand the intricate workings of the club, and I think it will be another year before I really truly have a good handle on it.  I also spent a good amount of time in "the trailer" as a guest of the stewards (at their request) so that I could help mediate when necessary.  I was successful affecting the outcome in some cases, and not so successful in other cases.  I know Terrell will make a positive change (that's why Weidspeed and I nominated him).  Getting to know the Stewards (we really have the best) is a big part of this job.  With that open line of communication we can try to affect some changes that are in the control of the local stewards.  But I also look forward to some of this team moving into national roles (BOD), so we can make even more positive changes.  After all, this is a club run by it's members and the best way to make it better is to get involved...

[Sean - MiataCage]

Will he do something about drivers who cause body damage every time they race?

Keith..... Are you suggesting that someone in our region is intentionally going out and hitting you or others on purpose? I would highly dis-agree if that is what you are suggesting. There are always 2 in any tango...... Sometimes as drivers we put our cars in compromising positions and then wonder why contact has occurred. How many choices do you make in any one given lap? Understand the GCR requires that racing room be given by both parties, so I just don't see where any one car is out just playing bumper cars.

I am not implying that you do or have done this, but to imply we have a hit squad is not accurate.

How many of you have ever filed a protest? I am not one for suggesting we protest as the first action, but if you have communicated with a driver you have had contact with and it continues to happen then the next step is a protest.

Protests do not need to be nasty. I protested a driver for contact at the NASA Nationals and he and I are just fine. We differed on our opinion of the events and we took it to the powers that be to make a decision.

I can't tell you how many times I have had someone come up to me in the paddock and tell me about how someone hit them and that they are so pissed..... My response is why are you telling me, go talk to the other person. We are all adults and in my opinion respect one another in this region and I would like to keep it that way. Talking in the paddock to others not involved in the incident or implying things on an internet forum are not constructive to the class or our region.

I think I know to which you are referring and it's not your fight......

Respectfully.... Sean

[Bruce Wilson]

I also know from conversations this year that there is a disconnect on the racing room topic. For many reasons, there are folks that play by different rules, especially the "I own the corner if your passing and don't get even with my door, navel, or whatever and it's your responsibility to back out"... This is not the rule in SCCA. I think it's ALL our collective job to make sure that everyone is educated on the rules of racing room and that should help with some of the issues we saw this year.

[Bruce Wilson]

In defense of Keith, yes he did have the conversation and the answer was interesting which is the basis for concern I stated in my previous post.

 

But I totally agree with Sean, we have a set of official protocols for dealing with these issues beyond the paddock conversation.  In ten years of racing, I've invoked that process a couple times when I thought the act was too egregious or the competitor was a repeat offender.  For the most part I was satisfied with the outcomes, which didn't always go my way. As racers in SCCA, it is our job to understand that process as much as it is the job of everyone to understand the racing room rules.

[Bruce Wilson]

I also don't care for how you've got to pay money to even get a steward to listen to you in regards to an incident on track. ICSCC, the stewards come find you and discuss what happened even if no protest is filed; They're more interested in making sure a driver is alright and then addressing the situation at hand. If a guy flips me off, and proceeds to run me off the road, I shouldn't have to pay $50 to have a steward ask if I'm ok.



 

 

 A couple issues to consider here.  First, if you've had contact with a car or another inanimate object, you SHOULD expect the Safety Steward coming by to see you.  This doesn't always happen unless your car has been towed to the bone yard, but it should happen in every incident that is documented.  Please let me know if it doesn't...

 

Also, I think it would be a good idea for everyone to read the the GCR, especially with regard to what happens to your protest fee if the protest is well founded.

[Bruce Wilson]

Also a really really good resource is here http://scca.cdn.race...dvisor 2012.pdf

 

And finally, I believe that we have some of the very best Stewards in the SCCA.  Make it a point to engage Gary Van Horn in conversation whenever you get a chance.  He is a huge wealth of information and context about these topics.

 

And finally, finally, we cannot improve unless we have an ongoing dialog.  We welcome these discussions with open arms and hope to find solutions to the problem whenever possible, whether that is affecting a change locally or pressing our good friend Todd Butler for a change at the national level...  

[Randy Thieme]

Don't assume contact is always reported.  Corner-workers make mistakes.  (I'm also a part-time corner-worker.)  For example:  I had a contact incident between T5 and T6.  Probably invisible to the workers at T6 since it was front-to-rear contact and our cars were pointed directly at them at the time.  It also did not result in a spin so there was no obvious indication contact occurred.  No steward came by and I chose not to make an issue of it.  All incidents which are reported by corner-workers must be written up and signed by the worker and those reports go to the steward. 

[Keith Novak]

Keith..... Are you suggesting that someone in our region is intentionally going out and hitting you or others on purpose? I would highly dis-agree if that is what you are suggesting.

No that's not what I was suggesting at all so your refutation is appreciated but not necessary. 

 

I also didn't mean to hijack this thread.  It was somewhat of an inside joke since Terrell complained to me offen about the offenders.  What's more, at a drivers meeting this year during impound, when the official speaking asked that if we had contact, please sort it out yourself and don't throw paper Terrell piped up that as a class, we're pretty good at making a-holes feel unwelcome and running them out of Dodge (or Miata I suppose in this case.)  A few days ago he sent me a very nice, diplomatic PM about how that would probably not be appropriate use of a director position and offered a more actionable plan should the aggrieved parties choose to follow it.

 

Since the thread has gone there (which I appologize for my ill-place smart a$$ comment), I'll clarify what I meant and move on.  There are drivers who are racing with no regard for others.  Not a hit squad.  They just don't care and hit at least one other car every single race.  When it was my turn getting hit, I first waited to cool off, then talked to the driver, who flat out didn't care.  Same response has been received by others.  Due to that response I was planning to file paper.  Unfortunately my camera died and the only person with video had their windshield frame cover the crucial moments so there was no real evidence of what did occur.  Rather than a fruitless protest, I licked my wounds, beat out fenders, and carried on.  I will however be investing in both fwd and aft facing cameras for next year and will have no hesitation filing a protest or providing video to anyone in the vacinity that gets pummeled.  That's all I have to say about that.  On track conduct should probably be a different thread.

 

TERRELL FOR DICTATOR!!!  (oops...director)

[Kyle Keenan]

Sorry about my previous post, was heated about something else and It spilled over a tad.

 

I feel Terrell would be a great candidate for RRD, as he really is passionate about it. I must say Jim did a fantastic job as RRD the past few years, and I feel Terrell would be a great guy to take over.

 

Also want to thank our SCCA workers, not only the turn workers, but each and every volunteer for coming out this year to lend a hand!

[Dani Ferrara]

 A couple issues to consider here.  First, if you've had contact with a car or another inanimate object, you SHOULD expect the Safety Steward coming by to see you.  This doesn't always happen unless your car has been towed to the bone yard, but it should happen in every incident that is documented.  Please let me know if it doesn't...

 

Also, I think it would be a good idea for everyone to read the the GCR, especially with regard to what happens to your protest fee if the protest is well founded.

 

I have to say, I was very surprised and confused when I was just waved through impound after my incident at Rose Cup this year...somehow no one knew about it. I talked with the other driver involved, but no Steward or official ever came to talk to us.

Anyway, I think Terrell would make a great Road Racing Director! He's got my vote for sure!

[Bruce Wilson]

I have to say, I was very surprised and confused when I was just waved through impound after my incident at Rose Cup this year...somehow no one knew about it. I talked with the other driver involved, but no Steward or official ever came to talk to us.

Anyway, I think Terrell would make a great Road Racing Director! He's got my vote for sure!

 

I did talk to the stewards about that Dani and that was one of those cases where nobody saw the incident.  It was a big hit fore sure and the stewards should have dealt with it in impound.  I know you don't see me as an official, but believe me, I was concerned and talked to a lot of folks about it if that counts

 

Good healthy discussions.  We should all do this more often...  It's how we improve!

[Randy Thieme]

I did talk to the stewards about that Dani and that was one of those cases where nobody saw the incident.  It was a big hit fore sure and the stewards should have dealt with it in impound.  I know you don't see me as an official, but believe me, I was concerned and talked to a lot of folks about it if that counts

 

Good healthy discussions.  We should all do this more often...  It's how we improve!

 

We're talking about the incident in T6 where Dani's car was hit in the side, right?

[Bruce Wilson]

We're talking about the incident in T6 where Dani's car was hit in the side, right?

 

Correct.  Was there a report?

[Kyle Keenan]

....nobody saw it? There was 3+ turn marshals in that station, and the incident was literally right in front of the turn station, and nobody saw it? I feel safe.....

[Bruce Wilson]

You should feel safe because we have some of the best... In pro racing they have 15 different camera angles.  I think it will be a few more years before we have Technology available to help solve these issues.   Believe me, I've been bit by it MANY times.  Remember when my car was totaled at RC and the general consensus was that I turned down on the other car and then the next day photographer quick action photos told the real story!!!