115 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

I wasn't around when SM started.  Was it started because someone asked, "what should our next spec class be?" or was it because Miatas had become popular cars to race and it made sense to put nearly all of them in the same class?  I assume it was the latter, and that needs to be how the next spec class develops.

You can thank the Z4 and SS stock rules:) When the Miatas became timed out for SSB and then noncompetitive with Z4's, we suddenly had a bunch of miatas that were too old and/or slow for SSB with no real good place to race them. Spec miata was born

[davew]

Be careful with how fast you want to go. The donor and the required parts for a spec Mustang will be $35-40K. Without bells or whistles. Much less labor. From what I was told by several people involved with the class in Cali, $60,000 cars are the norm. If the class really takes off (like SM) you will see $80-$100k cars befor too long. SO I doubt the class will take off like SM.

 

Dave

[LarryKing]

 

I love the idea of an entry level spec class

 

I was around when SM started. An entry level, low cost class was exactly what SM was suppose to be.

 

I'm older than Jim D. so he can be excused. SM started a couple years before the Z4s dominated in SSB. I'll grant you that there were some 99 SSB Miatas that needed a place to race.

 

$80-100k Mustangs. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!? (And they say I'm a drama queen)

[LarryKing]

Let say I have $30-35k burning a hole in my pocket.

 

Is it reasonable to assume that I could buy a competitive SM5 for that money?

 

Would I have to buy a "pro" motor every other season for an SM5?

[wheel]

Just a little perspective.  First, the MX5 WDYT is exactly as Jim stated.  There is NO agenda, by anyone, to do anything with MX5 or SM, for that matter.  The CRB, at the PRI face-to-face meeting, decided to put out the question to see what the racers thought.  That is the entire story.  

As to the Spec Mustang.  This class is not going to become a Majors/National class in the near, or distant future.  The cars are so close to being able to run in existing classes, that there is no real reason to start a new M/N class, especially when the BoD and CRB is trying to reduce the number of M/N classes to increase in-class competition.  The Mustangs will be running as T2 cars for 2014.  They could, with some modifications, run in ASedan, T2, T1 and GT2.  ASedan turned them down because they had a number of mods that had been specifically rejected when requested by existing AS drivers. There is a new spec line for them in T2, which allows them to run in their current configuration so that they will be able to run in Majors.  

[Neil O]

Let say I have $30-35k burning a hole in my pocket.

Is it reasonable to assume that I could buy a competitive SM5 for that money?

Would I have to buy a "pro" motor every other season for an SM5?

Please save your pro motor money for tires & other things. Most run Hoosiers and they are 17" and more $$ then our 15". You think sm's like stickers.... Drive a sm5. Also, find fenders & parts to fix that car. Things are rarely as simple as they seem. I like sm5 but, there is a lot more to consider then just the cost of the engine.

[svvs]

The other topic no one has broached yet is bringing new racers into the class.

 

While many of the front runners do have shiny cars with pro motors, the midpack and back is full of guys with sub $10K miatas.  It's a great way for the average guy to get started in racing in a class more competitive than something like ITA or ITB.  As I was told when I first started this adventure "even at the back you'll have someone to race with".

 

If the upfront investment was $25K for all involved, we would have fewer cars in the field, less success as a class.....etc.  When I started I spent 10K for a car, single axle trailer, and all sorts of spare parts (some of which were more useful than others).  That single axle trailer got me through my first three seasons and is currently serving a beginning NASA SM racer.  After one season with my car I updated the cage, and then when I blew a motor later on I put in a crate, then a head, and now I have what I would consider a relatively competitive car.  I probably wouldn't be here if I needed to start on a $25K car, and learn all my lessons on things with expensive replacement costs.

 

-Vick

[davew]

 

 

$80-100k Mustangs. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?!? (And they say I'm a drama queen)

 

Check out ebay. You are looking at a donor car price of $12-15K.

 

The Mustang I ran at the 25 hours used most of the Cortex racing suspension kit as used by the Spec Mustang rules. Filip from Cortex told me parts alone to do the suspension (springs, shocks, control arms, watts link, sway bars etc) will run $35k in parts.

 

The required wheels I assume to be $400 each. The tires are $350 each. Times 12

 

Add $10k for labor at a minimum. Add in the optional data, radios, spares etc.

 

That real quick like puts you in the $60+k range. You know that if it ever takes off, you will see special transmissions, rebuilt to tech shed legal engines and of  course "the special grease"

 

Maybe SMG will take off, and 5 years from now a top line car will be $100k and the entry level used car will be $35k. But there is a lot of room between that possibility and our SM reality of $40k topline/$10k entry level cars in SM.

 

Dave

[Charlie Hayes]

I have aligned most of the SMGs out here in California. One of our customers owns one and I am not impressed. The guys getting into it are older and they just don't want to be seen in a miata. I also don't think a stock engine mustang is anymore manly. It's more of a chick car than a miata.

They will average around $75k I am sure.

[LarryKing]

 

you will see special transmissions, rebuilt to tech shed legal engines and of  course "the special grease"

 

So, the same things that freak'd up Spec Miata.

 

Spec Mustang engine must be completely stock. "Tech shed legal" = cheating.

 

I don need no steeen-king labor. I've got like the ultimate set of tools.

 

Instead of assuming you can visit the source: http://www.cortexrac...y/spec-mustang/

 

Mustang GTs can be found for under $10K

[Tom Sager]

Didn't the high cost to compete in AS cause the near death of that class?  It was really healthy in terms of numbers when you could build an old Mustang/Camaro/Firebird but then the newer better faster more expensive cars were classified and the numbers went way south.  

[ChrisA]

Then go there and report back in few years and let us know how it's working out.

[wheel]

Tom,

Actually, the newer better ASedan was about 6th in participation numbers last season and was 3rd or 4th in Runoffs entries with 36.  In the good old days, when we never got above16th in National participation.  There might be 40 Runoffs entries and at the end of the race there would be 20 finishers and 20 smoking holes around the track.  It is cheaper to run in ASedan now than it was in the old days, in real dollars.   

We did away with all the crappy stock brakes, T-5 transmissions, etc. and gave everyone steel cranks, which meant the Mustangs didn't have to have three motors to run a season.  

So, to answer your question, No, it didn't.

wheel

[Sean - MiataCage]

So, the same things that freak'd up Spec Miata.

 

Spec Mustang engine must be completely stock. "Tech shed legal" = cheating.

 

I don need no steeen-king labor. I've got like the ultimate set of tools.

 

Instead of assuming you can visit the source: http://www.cortexrac...y/spec-mustang/

 

Mustang GTs can be found for under $10K

Hey RG.....  Find the closest family member, friend or even complete stranger and ask them for a hug.  I think it might help!

[LarryKing]

Sean, Help what?

[davew]

I have aligned most of the SMGs out here in California. One of our customers owns one and I am not impressed. The guys getting into it are older and they just don't want to be seen in a miata. I also don't think a stock engine mustang is anymore manly. It's more of a chick car than a miata.

They will average around $75k I am sure.

 

Including our 25 hour winner !!!!!! THANKS

[Todd Lamb]

I've got an SM5 for sale that will run you about $22k.

 

Or you can get a top shelf SM5 (read: fresh everything, pro race prep) for $35k.

 

There is no "pro motor" - as you know the motors are sealed. If you have your doubts, protest a competitor and have the motor sent to Comptech (or whoever is sealing them these days) and have them do a teardown, like they do in MX-5 Cup.

 

 

Let say I have $30-35k burning a hole in my pocket.

 

Is it reasonable to assume that I could buy a competitive SM5 for that money?

 

Would I have to buy a "pro" motor every other season for an SM5?

[LarryKing]

Todd, will you take a 1991 SM on trade?

[Todd Lamb]

What would I do with an old, antiquated, out of date, Miata? If only there was a large competitive class to race them in...

[LarryKing]

There's always vintage racing.