115 replies to this topic

[38bfast]

2600 lbs Mike.

[ner88]

Why not allow the NB cars in SM5 and leave SM alone?

[DrDomm]

I just skimmed the last 3 pages.  I didn't see anyone suggest that this is Mazda's idea.  I'm sure Mazda would like us all to race newer cars. 

 

Does SCCA want us to race "newer" cars, or more "masculine" cars?  Maybe.  Perhaps the image of it's most successful class doesn't attract new members.  Hmmm...

 

Otherwise, why mess with this class?  

 

(I'm not saying the MX5 shouldn't be supported.)

[Keith Andrews]

Why not allow the NB cars in SM5 and leave SM alone?

 

I agree, it seems like the wrong question is being asked.  I wonder where the question originated and the thought process (motive) of the questioner.

[Jim Drago]

I agree, it seems like the wrong question is being asked.  I wonder where the question originated and the thought process (motive) of the questioner.

The thought process and question has been raised time and time again in our annual CRB meetings. The concern is how do we keep the best thing we have going. Thinking in the future, we don't want to wait until we are all racing bug eyes in 10-15 years and wonder how we let the best thing in the SCCA die. I am not saying we are planning this for next year or at all. As SM racers we need to be concerned about the future of SM. As far as the CRB goes, that is one of the responsibilities of the CRB, future planning/management of classes etc. This is not something that Mazda is pushing, although I am sure they would like the idea.

[dfuser]

I'm thinking for equal or less $$$ than a new SM build I could race a man's car.

 

https://www.facebook.com/SpecMustang

 

And I think I have the perfect class for those tired old 99s

 

http://goaheadtaketh...nd-preparation/

That is exactly my though, and I am in the process of building a spec Iron to compete in next year along side the Spec Miata as I make the full transition.  Spec Miata as it stands today is still in my opinion the most fun, competitive, and successful class ever raced!

[MPR22]

The SM5 drives nothing like a 90-2005 SM. they completely different handling characteristics, share zero common parts. The club is doing the right thing by promoting SM5, and over time SM drivers will migrate in sufficient numbers to the class. Unfortunately that will continue to reduce the number of drivers in SM. Unlike Denny, who keeps trying to equate SRF, which is a purpose built spec race car, with SM which are production cars that are morphed into race cars, most people understand parity won't be perfect. Can current SM rules accommodate a much bigger car that has much more torque, abs......sure, but the racing will be poor at best compared to what we have now and I am genuinely concerned about putting those heavy cars on the track with the 1.6s. Let SM5 evolve and see if it becomes the next SM.

Denny, sell your SM and buy an SRF. Since you think a spec sealed class is the way to go, or try your hand at Spec Mustang, but you are kidding your self if you think a 3000 lb car won't be more expensive to race than 2000 lb car. The expendables alone will eat up all the money you think you are saving by not having to join the pro motor club.

In the spirit of Christmas, I sincerely hope Denny and everyone else who finds the current state of SM untenable the best of luck in finding a class that better suits their desires.

[Bench Racer]

 
 

As SM racers we need to be concerned about the future of SM. As far as the CRB goes, that is one of the responsibilities of the CRB, future planning/management of classes etc.

Don't disagree with this ^ comment.
Happy Holidays to all and a few comments.
There was a large contingent of Spec Miata racers at a point in time that had purple in their veins. The purple tires are here, where are they today? Why are they no longer racing Spec Miata?

With that ^ said, maybe the CRB should develop/present an inclusion plan proposal if they are hell bent on adding the 2006 plus cars to the mix or questioning through their proposal if the current Spec Miata customers are interested. X number of todays Spec Miata racers may be gone with the wind, same as the crowd with purple in their veins.

 

Throwing the early cars into Improved Touring is easy. Doing that other thing so all cars are competitive with each other takes a bit more foresight.  Or maybe the primary goal is to keep the big kids happy. 






 




 

[Keith Andrews]

The thought process and question has been raised time and time again in our annual CRB meetings. The concern is how do we keep the best thing we have going. Thinking in the future, we don't want to wait until we are all racing bug eyes in 10-15 years and wonder how we let the best thing in the SCCA die. I am not saying we are planning this for next year or at all. As SM racers we need to be concerned about the future of SM. As far as the CRB goes, that is one of the responsibilities of the CRB, future planning/management of classes etc. This is not something that Mazda is pushing, although I am sure they would like the idea.

 

Thanks Jim, that makes sense.

[Doug007]

Where is the perception coming from that these cars are getting too old to race?

 

Mazda sold over 210,000 NA miata in the US, another about 100,000 NBs.  Many of them are still on the road and available very reasonably priced as donors.  I have friends racing 911s from the 70's/80's and nobody seems to have problems finding parts to keep their cars on the track.  Miata parts are FAR more plentiful (about four times as many) and very cheap.

 

I could see SM, as currently configured, lasting a very very long time without issues.  Why ruin a good thing by throwing in a completely different car?  SM5 fields will grow organically if the price is right and the competition is there.  If not, just keep racing SM!

[Alberto]

I'm curious...  Is there any talk about a Spec series for the Toyobaru also?  Spec Mustang is gaining ground in SCCA.  What about making an honest focus on other cars instead of putting all your SCCA eggs in one basket - the Miata / MX5?  If these people are thinking long term, I hope they are broadening their scope with regards to cars and brands to focus on.

 

Spec E30, American Iron, the German Touring Sedan class and the Spec 911 are all doing well in NASA here in SFR.  So well that I never see any crossover to SCCA.  

 

 

As others have said, leave SM and SSM alone.  Start building other classes based on the learnings from SM.  Classes that can work Regionally as well as for National level racers - or whatever Nationals are called these days.  Is it Majors?  Ah, who cares.  I only race Regional and don't care about any National $tuff.

[Pat Ross]

Bench Racer,

"There was a large contingent of Spec Miata racers at a point in time that had purple in their veins. The purple tires are here, where are they today? Why are they no longer racing Spec Miata?"

As with any sport people come and people go, for many varied reasons. This sport, even racing a regional SM is not cheap. Many drivers find that they have other financial obligations, such as children going off to college, etc. so they leave SM never to return, or to return years later when they are in better financial condition. Like golf, biking, and other sports I have been involved in there is a time of most intense involvement which over time wanes. At one time I played at least 3 rounds of golf a week, now it has been three years since I have picked up a club. It is not because I don't have the finances to play every day if I wished, it just isn't my "thing" anymore. The same with biking. In the early 90s I biked over 3,000 miles a year. I haven't been on a bike in 10 years.

What I am trying to say is that lots of people leave SM not because of the cost of being competitive, but because they have other priorities. Trying to blame the '99 SM for a big portion of the reason a lot of people that no longer race NAs is incorrect. As people leave the SM community and new blood enters, the new blood naturally gravitate to the newer chassis since it is the car to have. Those long time SM racers that stay with their NAs and don't move forward are relegating themselves to the back half of the pack, just as a golfer who continues to use wooden shafted blade irons finds himself out driven and out played by people using the latest Titlist driver and irons. While playing country club golf I never once heard men "bitch" about their competitors use of newer equipment and claim it wasn't fair. They either got new clubs or kept their mouths shut.

By the way, I will be 75 years old next week and still work because I like to spend money playing. I could have retired 10 years ago, but I wouldn't have had funds to build two new '99 SMs during the last two years and just finish building a 700 hp LS3 that is going into a 2001 BMW M3 race car sometimes later this year. We each make our own choices about what is important in our lives. My choice was to continue working so that I could travel internationally, build an new house and play at racing. There is a price to remaining competitive. If one does not, or cannot afford that price then so be it. That's life. Competition has never stopped for those that can't keep up.

Pat R

[FTodaro]

I think the best thing for the class is giving racers options on what year car to build. Anything done to restrict those options will hurt the class and reduce participation. anything you do to increase options will increase participation in my opinion.

 

Yes we should do some future planning. I think it will take some time to sort out what is the best direction. I would build an SM5 today if i could race against someone. Novak has been after me for two years to do it but i cannot come up with a good reason to do it.

 

Also Like what was pointed out above, SM5 drive noting like an SM, i am told,

 

As to the point of Mazda wanting us to race newer cars, I believe that Mazda is making a decent profit in selling us all the parts we consume. Again my opinion, but i wish i had that exclusive parts business.

[Danny Steyn]

Pat Ross - that sir above is the sound of the hammer driving the nail home - well put!

[Danny Steyn]

And Frank, same here. If there was any real competition in SM5, I too would be building one.

[Bench Racer]

Pat, Don't disagree with your post one bit.
I made zero comment referencing the 99 car as reasons folks left Spec Miata racing............... The purple in their veins referenced was 5 plus years ago. My overall comment was the CRB should be careful what they feed the class because the class may choke.
 
Sometimes folks react to who posted and not the contet posted. 

[trimless]

Those long time SM racers that stay with their NAs and don't move forward are relegating themselves to the back half of the pack, just as a golfer who continues to use wooden shafted blade irons finds himself out driven and out played by people using the latest Titlist driver and iron.

Pat R

 

 

 

Pat, agree with your post except the part about putting me at the back of the pack! My wooden shafted blade iron 1.6  is at least mid pack

[Pat Ross]

Gail,

You definitely are not in the back half of the pack. You have chosen the NA as your platform and have determined to make it work for you, which it does. I have never heard you complain. For those that don't know Gail Corley, his NA consistently runs at the pointy end in the SW division.

Pat

[Jim Drago]

 
 

Don't disagree with this ^ comment.
Happy Holidays to all and a few comments.
There was a large contingent of Spec Miata racers at a point in time that had purple in their veins. The purple tires are here, where are they today? Why are they no longer racing Spec Miata?

With that ^ said, maybe the CRB should develop/present an inclusion plan proposal if they are hell bent on adding the 2006 plus cars to the mix or questioning through their proposal if the current Spec Miata customers are interested. X number of todays Spec Miata racers may be gone with the wind, same as the crowd with purple in their veins.

 

Throwing the early cars into Improved Touring is easy. Doing that other thing so all cars are competitive with each other takes a bit more foresight.  Or maybe the primary goal is to keep the big kids happy. 






 




 

 

Please read the "What do you think" again... It doesn't say the CRB is doing X,Y and Z. I know many think this may be some deal where the CRB has already made up their minds and the 06 up Mx5 will be included in the next Fastrak. I am telling you that is NOT what is going on here.  Please don't read anything into it that is not there. The CRB genuinely wants input on this matter from the SM community. At some point we will have to address this issue as the cars just like us are getting old! Is that time next year? 5 years? 10 years?  My personal opinion is that time is not here and wont be here for long time( my opinion is at least 5 years). I will not be on the CRB when this comes to the forefront. It is important that we all provide meaningful input here.

 

No idea on the purple in the veins comments? The Hoosiers were not chose by those you are speaking about. They were selected because of the surveys we all filled out. Overwhelmingly the SM community rated non shaving and track side support as important to them. The BOD had two companies submit proposals for the contract. Either tire would have worked as a spec tire. One had to be shaved and had little to no track side support, the other was molded and had tons of track side support. The BOD are elected officials, they voted what their constituents wanted. It really is/was that simple.  If we are not happy with the current tires, you ( any of us) should write your area director and tell them so. Hopefully the the SM7 will provide some more usuable life, if it doesn't, it is THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ALL OF US to write our area directors and tell them we are not happy with the life of the current spec tire. 

 

Merry Christmas to all! 

 

Jim

[DrDomm]

I'm bored, so I'll keep throwing out ideas til I come up with a good one.

 

I wasn't around when SM started.  Was it started because someone asked, "what should our next spec class be?" or was it because Miatas had become popular cars to race and it made sense to put nearly all of them in the same class?  I assume it was the latter, and that needs to be how the next spec class develops. 

 

If T4 becomes filled with MX5's, then it might make sense for that to become a spec car.  If T4 becomes filled with FRS's and BRZ's, then maybe that should be the car.  Maybe there's another light, cheap, RWD car out there that I'm not aware of. 

 

I love the idea of an entry level spec class, but the selection of the car needs to be "natural".