50 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

Open after the downpipe - right?

 

Only one sound control - right?

 

http://www.jegs.com/.../11529/10002/-1

[scott sanda]

You have invented the "push to pass (sound)" button

[Bad Rusty]

Everyone who races SCCA in this region already has a "Laguna exhaust".  So, please don't make us spend more money by spec'ing something different.  We've already spent the time and money to meet the requirement.  Now it's your turn.  Welcome to racing at MRLS. 

Drennan wins the first race with this one.  It's not a big deal to add a muffler, although it really is hard to hear the car below 90db.  The rules will be set by SCCA/MRLS, let's not add a non-binding gentlemans rule about sound, it will bring out the un-gentleman in some.  Besides, we need 103db for the race so we can be heard above the crowds, should be a lot like the Monterey Historics or Bike Week I would think.

 

Lot's of great driving in Sebring this past weekend.  Looking forward to seeing many of you in Monterey (If only on grid, way way in front of me..).  Off to Fontucky, CA!

[Caveman-kwebb99]

Everyone who races SCCA in this region already has a "Laguna exhaust".  So, please don't make us spend more money by spec'ing something different.  We've already spent the time and money to meet the requirement.  Now it's your turn.  Welcome to racing at MRLS. 

 

After my first full trip to your fully progessive state... you already have fully gay radio, and you have very good coffee... so can we please have some understanding on this fully gay exhaust thing????

 

Thank you and maybe we should all spec an East street engine so you wll have a chance at your home track (inside joke)

[Charlie Hayes]

We can spec the spec for the spec on the right spec, it's all about equal spec.

West>East

[Caveman-kwebb99]

We can spec the spec for the spec on the right spec, it's all about equal spec.

West>East

 

We all in the same gang "gansta"

[Stix37867]

My $.02....

While a spec exhaust would be good for us with cheaper budgets, I'm not sure it's right to spec one for this event but not require it at all events. What I could see done is creating a known list of compliant exhausts. We would have to state however that individual testing is recommended to ensure compliance.

Besides adding a custom section to a SD exhaust to quiet it down, the only two I've read that will meet spec are:

Borla - Both sections required
http://www.borla.com...art__60538.html

MBS - according to this thread it meets sound requirements though the website doesn't confirm.
http://www.mandrelbe...1,-2002,/Detail

Anyone know of others we can include on this lists?

[Brian Ghidinelli]

My thoughts racing at MRLS with SFR:

 

We should run quiet in the race if we run quiet all week; we generally enforce this rule during normal race weekends and it helps prevent "shenanigans".  Not that we ever have those at an SM Runoffs race...

 

While we could spec a muffler, what happens if a car fails?  And what if someone wants to add an extra elbow for insurance - is that legal?  In the end, I'm not sure it matters because...

 

Over the last 10 years, TC Design has refined a ~$125 muffler that bolts onto the end of an SD (or others) and uses the stock hangers like Alberto posted.  It reliably passes sound and on a 99 it costs you 0.5-1hp and adds 0.5-1 ft/lbs torque.  Those numbers are all within the dyno margin of error of the dyno and have been seen by many people on many dynos.  How many cars have experience with this exhaust?  Maybe 200 or 300 cars?

 

Unless you believe you could make MORE power with the muffler, there's little reason to do development beyond "no change", especially since such development (with a smaller/more restrictive setup) is already legal under the rules.

 

I like the idea of spec'ing a muffler but I see potential downsides for the club if cars fail, limitations at the event in addressing problems if they arise and with a proven piece available that has effectively no impact, I'm not sure why anyone would spend the time on development?

 

 

PS - SCCA does monitor sound at the track as required by the GCR however MRLS sits inside a county park and park staff also monitor sound.  If you blow sound (greater than 90.9db on a 90db day), you are required to come into the pits and effect a fix¹ before you can re-enter the track.  Losing your muffler accidentally will result in a black flag.

 

1 - a "fix" can be kicking the muffler, or so I've heard.

[Ron Alan]

General information for those attending MRLS for the first time.  They take sound pretty serious there...be prepared! And this includes the loud sessions as well as the quiet. As someone mentioned...weather affects the sound readings and Laguna is notorious for fog and low cloud cover. This can change sound readings by 1 or 2! At least during Regionals...you are allowed 2 failures...3rd black flag(I think) and you are done for the weekend. And I've seen more than once cars get black flagged that had no issue with sound...until they went by in a group of cars and seemed to get randomly chosen! 

 

Some personal experience...

 

Things may have changed a little in the last few years but it used to be 90, then 101 and 103 for about 3 hrs in the middle of the day. We run a SD exhaust on a early 1.8 car...points a little down and straight back as many know. We got hit for 102 during a 101 session(I think at TH this exhaust shows 96/97?). Tech screwed and tie wired a 90 degree elbow on pointing out the driver side...this worked though i kept waiting for someone to come in with that piece stuck in their grill 

 

My thoughts as far as the runoffs go...

 

~With the 3 groups all sharing time in the 90db sessions...I imagine SM will get 1 or 2 quiet qual sessions and 1 or 2 loud sessions...fair and equal for all.

~Racing these cars in 90db trim may just be adding more fuel to what already may be a firestorm! When you take away the ability to hear cars around you in an already crowded field...not a good thing. I vote for normal exhaust for the big show!

~No need to spec an exhaust...why penalize those that may be the bulk of the entrants who already have something that works? Many will be happy to share info with those East of us 

[tom1977]

 EDIT: Question answered by post above, coincidentally. 

[Brian Ghidinelli]

General information for those attending MRLS for the first time.  They take sound pretty serious there...be prepared! And this includes the loud sessions as well as the quiet. As someone mentioned...weather affects the sound readings and Laguna is notorious for fog and low cloud cover. This can change sound readings by 1 or 2! At least during Regionals...you are allowed 2 failures...3rd black flag(I think) and you are done for the weekend. And I've seen more than once cars get black flagged that had no issue with sound...until they went by in a group of cars and seemed to get randomly chosen! 

 

 

The actual rules according to the County are that your 3rd black flag you are done for the day, not the week/end.  Since at the Runoffs we only run once per day, that eliminates that issue (for all but race day, by which point you should be sorted).

 

In October, we're unlikely to have fog.  That's primarily a summer phenomenon.

 

At most Runoffs there is a "day to qualify" because the times move around and so ambient or weather tends to make one session the best.  One upside of running first or last every day is that we would be less impacted by it.  As you know, it's beautiful and 65F in California every day, including today.   I like this - if you have a problem one day, you shouldn't be totally hosed (thinking of Danny at RA this year as an example).

[Ron Alan]

The actual rules according to the County are that your 3rd black flag you are done for the day, not the week/end.  Since at the Runoffs we only run once per day, that eliminates that issue (for all but race day, by which point you should be sorted).

 

In October, we're unlikely to have fog.  That's primarily a summer phenomenon.

 

At most Runoffs there is a "day to qualify" because the times move around and so ambient or weather tends to make one session the best.  One upside of running first or last every day is that we would be less impacted by it.  As you know, it's beautiful and 65F in California every day, including today.   I like this - if you have a problem one day, you shouldn't be totally hosed (thinking of Danny at RA this year as an example).

Thanks for the clarification...I knew it was 3...I misremembered the rest 

 

Having lived the first 25 years of my life on the Monterey Peninsula...I concur October is a good month for no fog. But if someone told me we were going to go 5 weeks in December/Jan with no rain...well, the point is hope for the best/norm, prep for the unexpected. Someone told me its a little cold East of the Rockies at the moment??

[Race Engineering]

I would suggest to run the same exhaust to save cost on running and so forth.

[Alberto]

My $.02....

While a spec exhaust would be good for us with cheaper budgets, I'm not sure it's right to spec one for this event but not require it at all events. What I could see done is creating a known list of compliant exhausts. We would have to state however that individual testing is recommended to ensure compliance.

Besides adding a custom section to a SD exhaust to quiet it down, the only two I've read that will meet spec are:

Borla - Both sections required
http://www.borla.com...art__60538.html

MBS - according to this thread it meets sound requirements though the website doesn't confirm.
http://www.mandrelbe...1,-2002,/Detail

Anyone know of others we can include on this lists?

 

What do mean by 'meet the spec'?

On the Borla video testing at Laguna Seca, the exhaust hits 91.x db consistently.  The max is 90 db...

[Stix37867]

What do mean by 'meet the spec'?
On the Borla video testing at Laguna Seca, the exhaust hits 91.x db consistently.  The max is 90 db...

You're right...my bad. I hadn't watched the video in a while to look at the db readings. Strange that they made a quiet muffler but didn't get that extra db out of it to meet Laguna's requirements.

[Stix37867]

Some interesting articles in this months Sportscar. The article specifically talking about sound levels has a lot of good info. I did notice that it states the borla exhaust with both mufflers is legal though as shown clearly is not below 90dB. Otherwise it is definitely a good read. One question though pertaining the rules. The rules state that "a single muffler may be added". Does this mean we can only use one muffler? Or can we add one in addition?

[wheel]

SM will not be qualifying in the 90 db time slot and will be required to meet the 103 db sound limit.

wheel

[Ron Alan]

SM will not be qualifying in the 90 db time slot and will be required to meet the 103 db sound limit.

wheel

But be prepared to have an exhaust if you come out for any regional...50/50 you may be in the window. check the schedule. Not sure on test days...

[Bad Rusty]

As an FYI, the march event will require SM to be at 90db max for all sessions. This is not an uncommon practice. Runoffs will "probably" be different, but be prepared either way. And for those still trying to figure out what to do, I would call Tony and TC Design and Fab, he takes care of most SFR cars.

[wheel]

The Runoffs will have the first Q session of the day at 90 db and the rest will be at 103.  As of now, the races will all be at 103.

wheel