274 replies to this topic

[FTodaro]

can you blame this failure on installing long studs the cracks to no go to the studs?

[Steve Scheifler]

How many balls in each bearing for the various hubs that have been failing? My memory is the the original NA hubs were 12 balls, and then changed to 11. Back then it was widely believed that the 12s lasted a lot longer, which makes sense. I ask again because there are some aftermarket hubs that look good, heat treated, no machined flats on the back, etc. and have 12 balls. Interestingly, the ball diameter is identical to those from an 11 ball version, but I haven't determined if the difference is just spacing in the cage. Unfortunately, re-packing with better grease is proving difficult at best because the balls are not fully captured so the cage falls and reassembly becomes near impossible.

Has anyone else found hubs with more than 11 balls?

[john mueller]

How many balls in each bearing for the various hubs that have been failing? My memory is the the original NA hubs were 12 balls, and then changed to 11. Back then it was widely believed that the 12s lasted a lot longer, which makes sense. I ask again because there are some aftermarket hubs that look good, heat treated, no machined flats on the back, etc. and have 12 balls. Interestingly, the ball diameter is identical to those from an 11 ball version, but I haven't determined if the difference is just spacing in the cage. Unfortunately, re-packing with better grease is proving difficult at best because the balls are not fully captured so the cage falls and reassembly becomes near impossible.

Has anyone else found hubs with more than 11 balls?

 

 

Heh heh.  Steve said 'balls' like 5 times.  he heh heh.

[Alberto]

Boobs.  References to boobs is better than references to balls. 

[Todd Green]

Some more anecdotal evidence.  I found a junker Miata (1.6) with 190K miles on it that some friends and I turned into an enduro car for NASA E3.  EVERY expense was spared on the car (think Chumpcar). It still has the original hubs that came with the car.  It has done at least three 6 hour enduros, another 3 hour, numerous sprint races, at least two rain races that I can remember.  It has been driven (way) off track with the salty/fine Utah dust a couple of times.  Two years on and the front hubs are fine (Knock on wood).  Hubs have never been touched/repacked etc.  The same tires I use on my SM car (Hoosier SM7/Toyo RR/BFG R1) have been run on this car.

 

Again, I don't think the issue is the tires or anything other than suspect manufacturing of recent hubs.  If this isn't some weird anomaly, I'm going to start getting my hubs from junk yards.

[RazerX]

I am curious to Steve's point how many "boobs" are in each hub?  And if 12 boobs is better an 11 boobs, which must be as some had an issue.   anyway.  Do the current OEM hubs from Mazda have 12 boobs or 11?  I am guessing the same hub is  used for the heavy duty hub but better, rounder, firmer boobs.

 

I am also guessing that older hubs also had 12 boobs as well.  I guess i should open one up and feel them.

[davew]

He said boobs six times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[luvin_the_rings]

i was worried that I would be racing against a bunch of seasoned adult veterans,  however I'm glad to see that, like me, my peer competitors are also 5 years old. 

[Bad Rusty]

He said boobs six times !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Dave,

 

I felt a little (Hub going bad) feel a few weeks ago.  Took off the cover and got the nut to tighten about 1/8ish of a turn and seemed to go away.  Is this something that might be a permanent fix or more likely just dealying the innevitable, and the hub is going to go?  Thanks! and for the record,  I think my bearings have only 6 boobs, they are just much larger then the ones with 12 boobs.

[Tom Hampton]

i was worried that I would be racing against a bunch of seasoned adult veterans, however I'm glad to see that, like me, my peer competitors are also 5 years old.

I resent that! Mentally, I'm 13. Hehe fire, hehe! Boobs! Girls! Hehe!

[SaulSpeedwell]

 

Again, I don't think the issue is the tires or anything other than suspect manufacturing of recent hubs.  If this isn't some weird anomaly, I'm going to start getting my hubs from junk yards.

 

You may very well be right, but forgive me for jumping off into "Uncle Mark's Story Time" ...

 

I see this all the time in the auto industry.  The product has a "design margin". "They"  want it to last 100K even on a bad day when everything goes wrong, so they test the part to 150K and sign off on THAT part.  THAT part (or those 10, 20, or 100) was the "best effort" part from the eager-beaver supplier wanting the business, and it came off of fresh tooling and probably was built while some sternfaced engineers hovered over the assembly line like present-day parents monitoring a bouncy castle. 

 

The problem with OUR front wheel bearing is it is 10 years past being used in any new car, and thus has been shipped off to "Aftermarket Hell", whereby they make the product to a cost-reduced recipe with minimal testing.  One engineer (or one B.A. in Purchasing freshout) might be in charge of 1000s of aftermarket parts.  Unless "SchmautoSchmzone's" warranty skyrockets and jeopardizes the account, nobody will ever look at the "suspect manufacturing".  Your typical Miata.Net guy buying this part is putting 2000 miles a year on his car going to the ice cream shop on his 185/70-14 Mastercrafts - or if he is a super badass, he has huge tires and is swerving around cones in second gear for 5 minutes or so a month.  Even all of SM-dom undertorquing and botching re-packs and crashing into our best friends in Turn 1 fighting for 8th place will not make a dent in the Aftermarket Bearing Warranty Freshout's spreadsheet.

 

So - you are likely correct that the bearing quality is a factor, and it may even be the case that 1990 hubs will solve all our ills.  My concern there is that WE cannot live forever off of 1990 hubs.  WE can't control the automotive aftermarket.  But "WE" can move toward shorter, narrower, less grippy tires, and lower "legal" offsets.

 

Disclaimer:  I don't sell hubs, I no longer campaign an SM.  But I'm here to help

 

Rant:  I wish Silicon Valley would assure product quality for 10 years ... why are all of my 3 year old computers, tablets, and phones now "unsupported"?  These people are going to make driverless cars? 

[RazerX]

You may very well be right, but forgive me for jumping off into "Uncle Mark's Story Time" ...

 

I see this all the time in the auto industry.  The product has a "design margin". "They"  want it to last 100K even on a bad day when everything goes wrong, so they test the part to 150K and sign off on THAT part.  THAT part (or those 10, 20, or 100) was the "best effort" part from the eager-beaver supplier wanting the business, and it came off of fresh tooling and probably was built while some sternfaced engineers hovered over the assembly line like present-day parents monitoring a bouncy castle. 

 

The problem with OUR front wheel bearing is it is 10 years past being used in any new car, and thus has been shipped off to "Aftermarket Hell", whereby they make the product to a cost-reduced recipe with minimal testing.  One engineer (or one B.A. in Purchasing freshout) might be in charge of 1000s of aftermarket parts.  Unless "SchmautoSchmzone's" warranty skyrockets and jeopardizes the account, nobody will ever look at the "suspect manufacturing".  Your typical Miata.Net guy buying this part is putting 2000 miles a year on his car going to the ice cream shop on his 185/70-14 Mastercrafts - or if he is a super badass, he has huge tires and is swerving around cones in second gear for 5 minutes or so a month.  Even all of SM-dom undertorquing and botching re-packs and crashing into our best friends in Turn 1 fighting for 8th place will not make a dent in the Aftermarket Bearing Warranty Freshout's spreadsheet.

 

So - you are likely correct that the bearing quality is a factor, and it may even be the case that 1990 hubs will solve all our ills.  My concern there is that WE cannot live forever off of 1990 hubs.  WE can't control the automotive aftermarket.  But "WE" can move toward shorter, narrower, less grippy tires, and lower "legal" offsets.

 

Disclaimer:  I don't sell hubs, I no longer campaign an SM.  But I'm here to help

 

Rant:  I wish Silicon Valley would assure product quality for 10 years ... why are all of my 3 year old computers, tablets, and phones now "unsupported"?  These people are going to make driverless cars? 

 

Ha, it's not if the car can drive safely as much as can you guarantee it can't be hacked while you are in it.  Think about millions at stake in a financial institutions and they can't prevent intrusion...   

[davew]

As usual, Saul has solved all our problems.

 

1' we should race driverless cars into turn 1 on the way to the ice cream shop

2' no race should be longer than 5 minutes per month

3' we all need to get ahold of the boobs we where holding in 1990

 

dave

[steveracer]

As usual, Saul has solved all our problems.

 

1' we should race driverless cars into turn 1 on the way to the ice cream shop

2' no race should be longer than 5 minutes per month

3' we all need to get ahold of the boobs we where holding in 1990

 

dave

over the top!   edited!

[Bench Racer]

3' we all need to get ahold of the boobs we where holding in 1990

 

dave

 

Well, it wasn't 1990 but a GTL driver had Booble for a sponsor during the Topeka Runoffs years. He handed out Boobs at the Runoffs. Me being the "different strokes for different folks" guy clamped one in the rolling tool box vise for continuous advertisement. Some time along the way a request was made to him to cover the nipples, he did with a couple band aides. 
 

[Tom Hampton]

As usual, Saul has solved all our problems.

 

1' we should race driverless cars into turn 1 on the way to the ice cream shop

2' no race should be longer than 5 minutes per month

3' we all need to get ahold of the boobs we where holding in 1990

 

dave

Strictly speaking I do have ahold of the boobs I was holding in 1990.  Ok well...not RIGHT now, I'm at work. 

[LarryKing]

 

edited and agree! Jim

 

I guess we don't care if this site has any women visitor?

[Tom Hampton]

I guess we don't care if this site has any women visitor?

Since you're the only one b*tchin'....

[Ron Alan]

I guess we don't care if this site has any women visitor?

I'm with you on a little over the top post...

 

But to keep up with the children...more boobs are always welcome! It will give a few of our posters some company

 

Before computers many of us lived in front of the Boobtube!

[Keith Andrews]

I just disassembled a Timken boxed/NTN front hub.  It had some play in it after a day and a half crashing curbs at VIR.  What I found was a new design.  The plastic cages were made of a very rigid plastic (phenolic like slightly translucent).  Both plastic cages had rings around the inner diameter that snaps into the inner hub sleeves.  I'm fairly sure I they were not broken until I tried to take them apart.  I didn't find any metal shavings or noticeable erosion of the races.  I don't know why it had play in it.  I thought it was interesting that the design and materials were changed.  I had a hard time getting the photo small enough to upload.  The top is the NTN part, the bottom is an older part from Mazda.

 

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