274 replies to this topic

[Steve Scheifler]

Look very closely at the grease from the new one and I'll wager you will find tiny tips of that plastic that broke off the cage, making reassembly very difficult and potentially useless.

Oh, and count the boobs, you have an extra.

[Steve Scheifler]

How much play? The same both sides? Are you sure it wasn't just in need of a retorque after first use?

Mark, the torque specs are fairly broad (especially in back as I recall?). Do you recommend going with the top of the range? What about a retorque after first use? Pointless if done correctly the first time?

[FTodaro]

I just disassembled a Timken boxed/NTN front hub.  It had some play in it after a day and a half crashing curbs at VIR.  What I found was a new design.  The plastic cages were made of a very rigid plastic (phenolic like slightly translucent).  Both plastic cages had rings around the inner diameter that snaps into the inner hub sleeves.  I'm fairly sure I they were not broken until I tried to take them apart.  I didn't find any metal shavings or noticeable erosion of the races.  I don't know why it had play in it.  I thought it was interesting that the design and materials were changed.  I had a hard time getting the photo small enough to upload.  The top is the NTN part, the bottom is an older part from Mazda.

 

IMG_1991.JPG

interesting, i have not seen this design but i have tried to avoid buying the new hubs, IMO they are clearly poor quality at least as far as the hubs labeled NTN. 

 

There are some other hubs out there, Wheeler i think uses a different brand. This may be a subject that at some point needs to be addressed with MazdaSpeed for some assistance. between the failures do to bearing failure and the failures with metal fatigue, it can become a safety issue.

 

Kieth thanks for getting us on point again.

[Keith Andrews]

Steve - You are probably right there may have been broken cage bits in the grease.  After I took them apart the cages were damaged enough for me to consider them unusable.  They had some slightly play before this weekend so I torqued them and the play went away.  They had one prior weekend of use at Roebling Road.  That track has very little curbing but has long sweeping higher speed turns.  This hub was on the left side.  The right still has no play, both hubs were installed at the same time.  The right side has survived two weekends FWIW.

 

I just ordered some Mazdaspeed HD hubs. 

 

Has anyone re-greased the new Mazdaspeed hubs?  Do the have the flexible black plastic ball bearing cage.

[Diller]

Just to add to the confusion. I have bought two Timken front hubs from Rock Auto at the same time and one had the hard black plastic cage and the other had the more flexible tan colored cage. They also had two different number of ball bearings in them. The hard black plastic broke as soon as I tried to pull it out as well.

[RazerX]

So it sounds like, and i believe was mentioned that either Timken changed their design or are now just reselling some other manufacturer.  

 

Keith, when you get the new HD hub, let us know what you find inside.  And how many boobs!

[Steve Scheifler]

Keith, we just had a very similar experience to yours. After discovering that attempts to replace the stock lube in new 12-boob hubs was damaging the cage I decide to just bolt fresh ones on both cars for a weekend and see what happens.

At Gateway there is just one right turn other than a quick L-R switchback, yet within a few sessions there was significant play on the left hub of both cars, though both still felt smooth. The rights, which should get a lot more abuse, were tight and smooth. I retorqued one, which may have slightly reduced but did not eliminate the play, and replaced the other. I drove the car with the suspect hub Sunday and it had not changed noticeably after a short practice and qualifying, but by mid-race it was clearly starting to fail so I eased up a bit in that turn and limped it to the end. I'll do a post-mortem later this week but it may just be that QC is very poor so some fail quickly while others last a lot longer.

If it were possible to disassemble these without damaging the cage I would try to source better quality balls, but at the moment I'm not hopeful that these new 12-boob hubs are any good. Too bad because they also have the dual heat-treat rings on the housing corresponding to the races.

[RazerX]

Perhaps returns and getting refunds will affect this more than anything else.  Most companies migrate to making as cheap as possible.  "As possible" is until QC problems affect the bottomline.

 

So we should start demanding refunds for those hubs that fail that quick.

[LarryKing]

 

So we should start demanding refunds for those hubs that fail that quick.

 

Name a race car part that has a warranty. Bet ya can't

[Keith Andrews]

FWIW the blueprinted hubs from Mazda are NTN hubs.  They definitely turn very easy.  I'll be at the track this weekend with this new hub installed on the left side.

[Jim Drago]

Name a race car part that has a warranty. Bet ya can't

http://mazdaracers.c...n-swaps-199905/

 

http://mazdaracers.c...-transmissions/

 

 

Just sayin

[FTodaro]

Not exactly on point of the thread, but while at Blackhawk a few weeks ago, i had 3 long studs fail on me on the left front hub. I believe the long studs were purchased from Saferacer and it looked to me as if the press fit portion that fits in the hub was not as long as the stock studs and it would fail right at that Junction.

 

Bench was there saw it and took one, just passing it along, I have had 4 studs fail. So I have replaced all the studs with the stock short studs.

[Ron Alan]

Not exactly on point of the thread, but while at Blackhawk a few weeks ago, i had 3 long studs fail on me on the left front hub. I believe the long studs were purchased from Saferacer and it looked to me as if the press fit portion that fits in the hub was not as long as the stock studs and it would fail right at that Junction.

 

Bench was there saw it and took one, just passing italong, I have had 4 studs fail. So I have replaced all the studs with the stock sort studs.

Had the exact same thing happen last weekend as well! Same supplier...same location break

 

And the stud literally fell off in impound as we drove in from Qual??  I to have the stud and nut still on it. 4th weekend on the car and always used 75lbs of torque which I dont think is excessive. None of the other studs on the same hub were lose.

[davew]

Where these the black "KJZ" studs???

[Ron Alan]

Where these the black "KJZ" studs???

YES,,,

[Keith Andrews]

The straight knurl on the 12mm ARP studs is the same length as the stock studs.  I have not had any issue with them.  (ARP part number 100-7708)  They don't have a bullet nose but they work fine.

[davew]

YES,,,

 

I was concerned at first, but I only sell the ARP studs. I will stop worrying

 

dave

[Ron Alan]

Just sent a letter to Saferacer...sucks but i will be throwing away 32 long studs new and used

 

I realize now I had a rear upright fail(new studs)its first session on track...causing the lose of a wheel and damage to the car. Unfortunetaley this was my spare i sold to someone else. At the time we all scratched our heads and thought it was wheel studs not tight or rotors that werent relief cut. Now I wonder if in fact we didnt have a stud failure

[FTodaro]

Where these the black "KJZ" studs???

yes

[Johnny D]

I have a bunch of long studs if you want them Ron.

J~