57 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

It's not about protesting, it's about understanding the rules. The MazdaSpeed bearing balls per MazdaSpeed are a more precise bearing balls than the Mazda OEM bearing balls. The rule specifies that, Mazda parts may not be modified beyond what

is allowed in these rules. It's really quite simple, post the rule that allows more precise bearing balls to be used? 

[Bench Racer]

Catch ya later, time to go play golf.

[Johnny D]

If I understand Jim correctly, I'd say everyone with aftermarket OEM hubs should be DQ'd because the quality has dropped below OEM specs.

 

J~

[MPR22]

David, David, David.  

 

 

When will you understand if it has no spec then it can't be tech'd.  Even then it might not be possible as the tools used to measure would have to be available and the people using the tools would have to be trained to use said tools.  

 

You know damn well the likely hood of either of those events occurring are near zero and therefore the term "tech shed legal" applies.  If that doesn't work for you, then know deep down in your heart that you are the only SM racer that isn't cheating and be satisfied with that.  

 

Oh by the way,  give  just about anyone 5 minutes to walk around your car and I bet they could find some stupid minor infraction, which would be equally punishable by the SCCA.  

 

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[Cnj]

Bench,

I'm convinced you pull this stuff just to amuse yourself - or maybe you genuinely are addicted to Schrodinger cat arguments.

CNJ

[Bench Racer]

As I said earlier, this is not about protests. Also, no cats at play here. There are folks shooting smart a$$ed comments that are totally uncalled for. To many minds that may not care what the words within the rules specify and don't care to backtrack the precision ball bearings back into the rule specification. For an example, take the grade 5 ceramic bearing balls at $750.00 per set, do you think maybe this is what the rule is saying, no, this cat doesn't fly. Because John Doe states these front hubs with precision bearing balls are legal doesn't make them legal to use. Bottom line, a lot of folks reading this thread, no one calling out a rule that allows precision bearing balls to take pressitant over the last paragraph of rule 9.1.8.C.

 

How about some front hub costs:
MazdaSpeed MotorSports OEM front hubs            $310.00 per set
MazdaSpeed heavy duty front hubs                      $410.00 per set
Venfor stage #2 front hubs                                   $500.00 per set
Vendor stage #3 front hubs grade 5 ceramic balls  $750.00 per set

[Ron Alan]

             

[Bench Racer]

 Bottom line, a lot of folks reading this thread, no one calling out a rule that allows precision bearing balls to take pressitant over the last paragraph of rule 9.1.8.C.

 

 

Come on Ron, you seem to be Mr. Logical on the left coast. Which rule takes pressitant over the last paragraph of rule 9.1.8.C.?

[Bench Racer]

A couple guys on line, it's  time for me.

[James York]

As I said earlier, this is not about protests. Also, no cats at play here. There are folks shooting smart a$$ed comments that are totally uncalled for. To many minds that may not care what the words within the rules specify and don't care to backtrack the precision ball bearings back into the rule specification. For an example, take the grade 5 ceramic bearing balls at $750.00 per set, do you think maybe this is what the rule is saying, no, this cat doesn't fly. Because John Doe states these front hubs with precision bearing balls are legal doesn't make them legal to use. Bottom line, a lot of folks reading this thread, no one calling out a rule that allows precision bearing balls to take pressitant over the last paragraph of rule 9.1.8.C.

 

How about some front hub costs:
MazdaSpeed MotorSports OEM front hubs            $310.00 per set
MazdaSpeed heavy duty front hubs                      $410.00 per set
Venfor stage #2 front hubs                                   $500.00 per set
Vendor stage #3 front hubs grade 5 ceramic balls  $750.00 per set

 

Great, you have offered your opinion (many times) and everyone else has offered theirs.  The intelligent reader can filter through the BS and decide what they wish to do.

 

I know what hubs I will run.  You can run what hubs you want.

[dstevens]

Dewey you crack me up...

[Ron Alan]

Come on Ron, you seem to be Mr. Logical on the left coast. Which rule takes pressitant over the last paragraph of rule 9.1.8.C.?

Is that a compliment My take since you asked....

 

Although marketing and hype are the first thing that comes to my mind when i see the Mazdaspeed "heavy duty hub" description, the reasoning behind them makes sense. That is, the average quality of the new parts is not what it was back when they were first being produced...kind of like the McDonalds hamburger! 

 

I'm sure there is no rule or clarification in the GCR that addresses your issue...or you wouldn't be popping a hemi! I assume you have fired off a letter for the CRB/BOD to clarify this...thank you! In the meantime I'm not going to lose sleep over which direction i go on my wheel bearings. Like rotors(which are open by the way if they meet oem specs)which come in a variety of metal "qualities" and do vary in there ability to handle the heat and stress...I view this the same way. Its the knowledge they may last longer and less likely to fail abruptly...no one is claiming this is a speed secret! 

 

Now coating is a different discussion...and I will be your best ally in that battle!

[MPR22]

I believe if you took an original ball bearing and one of the aforementioned super ball bearings (not ceramic totally different material and should have never been in this conversation) even the super keen eyes and intellect of David Dewhurst would not be able to tell the difference. 

[Bench Racer]

Yes indeed it was a compliment.   No, I did not and will not send a letter. No additional rule required, rule 9.1.8.C. covers the point of more precise bearing balls than the OEM bearing balls. The non-magnetic ceramic bearing ball makes the illegal point. I'm not about to protest anyone, but if I were to protest, it would be under conditions that the balls be sent to an analytical service with appropriate measuring equipment to six places. Anybody like the bearing ball grade specs posted. Those that live the moral high ground, please continue to keep the tech shed roof over your head. Oh, I did make a call about the heavy duty Miata front hubs and they were non-commital about legality of their precision bearing balls. The call to Topeka confirmed my understanding of rule 9.1.8.C. with reference to non OEM parts.

 

Have Fun

David Dewhurst

 

[Duncan]

Yes indeed it was a compliment.   No, I did not and will not send a letter. No additional rule required, rule 9.1.8.C. covers the point of more precise bearing balls than the OEM bearing balls. The non-magnetic ceramic bearing ball makes the illegal point. I'm not about to protest anyone, but if I were to protest, it would be under conditions that the balls be sent to an analytical service with appropriate measuring equipment to six places. Anybody like the bearing ball grade specs posted. Those that live the moral high ground, please continue to keep the tech shed roof over your head. Oh, I did make a call about the heavy duty Miata front hubs and they were non-commital about legality of their precision bearing balls. The call to Topeka confirmed my understanding of rule 9.1.8.C. with reference to non OEM parts.

 

Have Fun

David Dewhurst

 

The Mazda Motorsports ball bearings are not ceramic.

 

Sending the balls out to be measured does nothing if you can't provide a spec for the OEM part.  Even if you had an OEM part and they're different, that still doesn't tell you anything.   I'm sure there's been variation over the years between the various hubs that Mazda sells, not to mention the variety of offerings from the aftermarket. 

Duncan

[James York]

Yes indeed it was a compliment.   No, I did not and will not send a letter. No additional rule required, rule 9.1.8.C. covers the point of more precise bearing balls than the OEM bearing balls. The non-magnetic ceramic bearing ball makes the illegal point. I'm not about to protest anyone, but if I were to protest, it would be under conditions that the balls be sent to an analytical service with appropriate measuring equipment to six places. Anybody like the bearing ball grade specs posted. Those that live the moral high ground, please continue to keep the tech shed roof over your head. Oh, I did make a call about the heavy duty Miata front hubs and they were non-commital about legality of their precision bearing balls. The call to Topeka confirmed my understanding of rule 9.1.8.C. with reference to non OEM parts.

Yes.  Please post the specs.

 

And then tell me how balls, all being found "inside" the spec, to even lets say perfect values at exactly the middle of the spec, perfectly round, would be non-compliant.

 

Have Fun

David Dewhurst

[Bench Racer]

The Mazda Motorsports ball bearings are not ceramic.

 

I understand the MotorSports balls are not ceramic. A previous poster brought up ceramic balls and I posted that a vendor sells stage 3 hubs with grade 5 ceramic balls.

Bearing ball specs:

 http://en.wikipedia....i/Ball_(bearing)

 

Using these ^ specs, it's a stastical slam dunk. 

 

Enough of this subject

[MPR22]

yep you got us there.  My Balls started out as grade 50 but through wear and tear have degraded to grade 100 and I am now in violation of the rule 9.1.8.C.  I will turn myself in at the next race.  

 

Or do the balls get smoother with every use?   In that case I started out with grade 100 but through wear and tear have degraded to grade 50 and I am in violation of rule 9.1.8.C  I will turn myself in at the next race.  

 

I am a confessed cheater, please revoke my SCCA License.  

[Jim Boemler]

Can anyone explain how blueprinting the hubs is legally different from blueprinting the engine?  Somehow the whole argument seems familiar.

[James York]

I understand the MotorSports balls are not ceramic. A previous poster brought up ceramic balls and I posted that a vendor sells stage 3 hubs with grade 5 ceramic balls.

Bearing ball specs:

 http://en.wikipedia....i/Ball_(bearing)

 

Using these ^ specs, it's a stastical slam dunk. 

 

Enough of this subject

That doesn't say anything.  Come on, spell out the non-compliance.  Don't link Wikipedia and say it proves your point.  It proved nothing.  I still have not seen anything you have said (or linked) that shows a non-compliant issue around the Mazda HD hubs, other than it's your opinion.