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SCCA seat slider rules just changed again

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#41
Keith Novak

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As for calling Italy, I'd reckon he was going to call Sparco, based in Italy, who are required by FIA regs to have and make available homolgation docs. ;) The FIA generally doesn't act as an intermediary. If you need the info you contact the manufacturer and they get you sorted.


+1 I'd expect there would be a copy on file, and another copy framed on the office wall.
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#42
Mtaylor

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Question for steve the saftey guy,

I have a FIA Momo, on modified mazda sliders, which might or might not be up to the spec momo had for there sat, obviously it meets mazda /Dot standards, but....

I do have a very well enginered seat back bracket in place and my car/cage was recently gone thru buy the top HSR/SVRA, former champion racing/audi racing guys, and this is what they are telling me.

Yes the hard mount are better than the slider setup, but the seat belts are effected by the loads in mishap, it is not the actual seat that is holding you in place., ie the forces it in a frontal impact, ( the seat does not hold you it is the belts). In a side impact the seat/laterally are more important but the new Side nets( nasa not scca) also help with the latteral forces.


I know you can never be too saft but if the silders meet us dot crash testing and the mounts are built into the car as designed, fatory location this is a crash test design. So the question isn't aren't the belts and there mounting and effectivness, the real issue?

I know it is a system and is supposed to work together. but here you have scca mandating, a seat bracket, but no hans device and no right side nets.
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#43
dstevens

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I don't use DOT road car standards for building race cars. A high speed crash in a race car is completely different and in many cases much more violent. In a street car even if your top speed is 75mph or so, your average is much lower. In a race car our average speeds are often if not mostly above 75 mph. And the top speeds are far more than anything you would do in the street. I'm from the world of where your seat mounts have to attach to the cage. This whole bolt the seat to a floorpan that's a couple of 20 ga pieces of sheet is pretty unappealing to me, let alone putting a race seat on sliders. I'm at the seat mount point of the build now and trying to figure out how to make it so I fit in the car and have the seat mounts fabbed as part of the cage.
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#44
Juan Pineda

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Separate from slider issue, I don't believe that many of the factory side mounts can be used in a Miata without significant floor modifications. I don't see that it makes any sense to cut up the floor just to accommodate the factory mounts. Especially when there are no standards for that floor work.

I don't think this rule was made with any consideration of seat mounting constraints in a Miata.

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#45
Steve The Safety Guy

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Question for steve the saftey guy,

I have a FIA Momo, on modified mazda sliders, which might or might not be up to the spec momo had for there sat, obviously it meets mazda /Dot standards, but.... DOT and FIA have zero correlation between eachother.

I do have a very well enginered seat back bracket in place and my car/cage was recently gone thru buy the top HSR/SVRA, former champion racing/audi racing guys, and this is what they are telling me.

Yes the hard mount are better than the slider setup, but the seat belts are effected by the loads in mishap, it is not the actual seat that is holding you in place., ie the forces it in a frontal impact, ( the seat does not hold you it is the belts). In a side impact the seat/laterally are more important but the new Side nets( nasa not scca) also help with the latteral forces. The issues related to seat mounting and the reliability of slider assemblies is in relation to lateral impacts where the seat is put through its hardest stresses.


I know you can never be too saft but if the silders meet us dot crash testing and the mounts are built into the car as designed, fatory location this is a crash test design. So the question isn't aren't the belts and there mounting and effectivness, the real issue? Again, DOT and FIA have zero correlation between eachother. As someone else stated, DOT doesn't take into account the added forces related to higher than typical speed limit impacts...

I know it is a system and is supposed to work together. but here you have scca mandating, a seat bracket, but no hans device and no right side nets.


I tried to answer as best I could, but your questions are not really something I can answer on, I am not an inspector and I am not able to tell you exactly how well your safety system is put together.

#46
dtfastbear

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Because I can never let a dead horse lie silently...

I had a good laugh to myself this weekend while watching the Grand-Am races at Lime Rock... You could clearly see on several driver changes the new driver reach down and SLIDE THE SEAT to a new position. The irony is that I was home watching pro racing on TV instead of ACTUALLY racing in the SCCA regional at Laguna because SCCA have deemed seat sliders unsafe and illegal. *sigh*

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#47
MAK

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Dean,

I am in a similar position in that my seat setup needs to be updated in order to run with SCCA. I plan to use the following seat bracket as mentioned in another thread.

Thread Link


Hopefully it works, is safe, and passes tech.
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#48
Mike Collins

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In response to this and your other post, yes you can use this so long as you omit the sliders and use the correct hardware.
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#49
MAK

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Mike, thanks for the feedback!
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#50
dtfastbear

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Hey Mike,

The rule wording that you posted in the other thread is NOT the final wording of the seat mounting rule. I don't think it would make a difference given what you're doing with the mounts, but I just wanted to make sure you knew... The wording you posted is what was passed by the Board, but they subsequently did a "wording clarification" that completely changed the rule and made ALL sliders illegal without a back brace, not just stock sliders. Check Fastrack.

That mount looks good for an SM, but it wouldn't work for my application. I've had to modify the floor of my car to accommodate the Recaro sliders and still the quite tall Recaro Race SPG HANS. The stock mounts are gone.

I might still be able to use it for Laura's car, as I think she'd still like to race SCCA once in a while. I've just accepted that my days of racing with the SCCA (at least with my current car) are over.

Cheers,

Dean

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#51
MAK

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Thanks for the clarification and feedback, Dean. You are right, I quoted the GCR and not the Fastrack wording. My mistake.
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#52
Sphinx

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So, to once again beat a dead horse, the car at the Mazda display (Long Road Racing's 1.6L car) at the MSX show had sliders.  I asked the gentleman who owns it (I pressume Tom's dad) and he said they are using sparco sliders.  I asked if they were FIA sliders and he said they were.  So, there you go.

 

What's very puzzling is that the current rule requires not only that sliders/seat but they must be tested with an FIA Homologated car.  So, the sliders themselves don't have to be FIA homologated, the car that they were tested in has to have been.  How the heck are we supposed to know that?  And if we know that, let's say they were tested in a 911 GT3, how the heck do we prove that to the tech inspectors?  Bring in the sample car???  Did someone think through the feasibility of compliance with this rule short of competing in an FIA homologated car?  Even then, what's a team with the FIA car to do if they want to change seats out?  The new seat wasn't tested with that assembly in the homologation process.

 

Seats with a back not attached to the main roll hoop or its cross bracing may be mounted on runners only if they were part of the FIA homologated seats assembly specified in an FIA homologated race car.



#53
Mike Collins

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Sphinx,

Just because you've seen it on someone else's car does not make it legal....
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#54
Sphinx

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Sphinx,

Just because you've seen it on someone else's car does not make it legal....

 

Oh I know and completely agree.  My real point was that compliance with the rule as written is impossible.  In fact, short of a GT3 or some of the old World Challenge cars, no one could hope to comply.


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