53 replies to this topic

[LarryKing]

James, you've been on this and the previous site a long time. I know you've heard this all before ad nauseam - pro motors (never in the original intent of the class), coated gears in transmissions and diffs, "enhanced" ECUs, revalved shocks.

 

When was the last time the bottom end of a motor was torn-down in tech?

 

Tell me, does sealing work in SRF?

[Jim Drago]

Pro motors are part of racing.  If we suspend reality and say sealed motors are never touched. You will still have a wide range to pick from and sell off the rest. The variance in those motors is likely 2-3x greater than what we have right now in pro engines in Sm from multiple different engine builders. Multiple supliers should keep costs down.

 

Coated gears in transmissions and diffs are ILLEGAL, it is spelled out. So whether sealed or not, it is illegal.  A seal would not make it any more or less illegal.

 

Enhanced ecu's are illegal and have been caught and Dq'ed. No more or less illegal in a sealed class. The one benefit is in SM5 and SRF is the flash is really close so the gains are not really there to be had,  but rev limiter increases etc are still posssible.

 

Shocks.. We have a spec. Outside that spec is illegal.  BTW I have won three national championships, three sprints and several division titles on bone stock never touched out of the box shocks. Those buying these 'blue printed" shocks IMO are buying $500.00-$900.00 worth of snake oil.  Save your money and do an extra few test days, way more bang for your buck. 

 

Does sealing work in SRF.  Any seal can be compromised.  Several here have mentioned stories. I have no first hand knowledge of it, but it is definitely possible and one could even say probable.  

 

 

Jim

[James York]

James, you've been on this and the previous site a long time. I know you've heard this all before ad nauseam - pro motors (never in the original intent of the class), coated gears in transmissions and diffs, "enhanced" ECUs, revalved shocks.

 

When was the last time the bottom end of a motor was torn-down in tech?

 

Tell me, does sealing work in SRF?

None of those items are grey areas.  They are all non-compliant.  Simple.  (except the pro motor statement, which you tell me how you even define such a thing..  if i build it, what about a friend?, a non SM shop?  anything other than junkyard?).  Those things are all red-herrings.  What you want is rules enforcement.  Fine, lets reinstate the SM Fee and randomly start pulling people motors and transmissions apart.

 

Do you know of any non sealed motor class that has had their bottom end opened up outside the runoffs?  Do T1 cars have their motors taken apart?  Why should SM be different than the other SCCA classes?  Rules are there.  Enforcement is up to the club and/or member via protest.  

 

If you want to run a sealed class, go do so if you think everyone is cheating in SM.  I guess there is a few such sealed classes in the club.  If SM isn't your thing, its ok.  I am sure there is a SRF for sale.  Here i will help.  http://www.specracer...077946582529d79

 

Does sealing work in SRF?  I don't know.  I can't say with any facts.

[Chad Martin]

I figured this was all worked out after seeing what Mike Cooper is bringing to June Sprints.  

 

148 Cooper, Michael Spec Miata 2008 Mazda mx5 Atlanta Motorsports Group Syosset, NY

[Waterboy]

Because you can't stop all cheating, let's not stop any.

Never mind you won't understand.

[Waterboy]

Meathead, wheeler, and fowler each need to have a sm5 rental or two a piece. The cars are a blast. You start getting people renting they'll end up building them.

Cars are no more expensive to build, unless your name is O-BAH-DIE-AH. Consumables are a bit more as are replacement parts.

No need for them in sm now. When the time comes uncork the 1.8's and 1.6's go to ssm. Class is already there with decent rule sets do not need another class, like sm2 for instance.

[Bench Racer]

 

Can you imagine the parity threads about a 2015 vs a 1990. Pat and Dave's heads would explode !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Dave

At my fine age of seventy two I do care what happens to the Spec Miata class. I have never had a hart attact, stroke or any sort of mind blowing explosions. A little arguing about a race class/cars/rules/whatever is a positive process relaxing experience. Even arguing with some on this site that respond while talking in circles becomes enjoyable.
My point for this thread:
About the worst thing that may/will happen to this class is that the pointy enders will out spend the other seventy five percent and the other seventy five percent will walk away.

[Tom Sager]

Responding to Mr. Daniels from the other thread.  

 

You make a good point with the HP example.  Some of the production classes did try to hang on too long.  BUT, SCCA has a terrible and I mean terrible history of classifying newer cars (and often more expensive) which clearly become the cars to have and obsolete every other car in the class.  That never goes over well.   In SM we have no issues with car availability at this time or for years to come.  I'd challenge the thought that the cars can be easily balanced, that is balanced to the extent that we in our class expect them to be.  Even in our current "similar miata" class we've got some balance issues.  The MX5 is quite a bit less similar than the current cars and even with the best of intentions I don't think we can expect a longer, heavier, wider, more powerful car with different gear ratios to race at most tracks as "similarly" as we do now.  We don't have car availability issues like good old HP and GP had for years.  Frankly we have a surplus of cars including many that are already built that aren't raced or very seldom.  We ought to clean up that house first, unless of course the greater plan (speaking only of SCCA) is to deep six the NA cars.  

[LarryKing]

Dogma: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted.

[Mitch Reading]

Meathead, wheeler, and fowler each need to have a sm5 rental or two a piece. The cars are a blast. You start getting people renting they'll end up building them.

Cars are no more expensive to build, unless your name is O-BAH-DIE-AH. Consumables are a bit more as are replacement parts.

No need for them in sm now. When the time comes uncork the 1.8's and 1.6's go to ssm. Class is already there with decent rule sets do not need another class, like sm2 for instance.

Well said Tim.  I keep meaning to jump in a rental, Mitchum has one gathering dust, but haven't made the time.  

 

What has kept you in SM vs jumping to SM-5? 

[Waterboy]

Well said Tim.  I keep meaning to jump in a rental, Mitchum has one gathering dust, but haven't made the time.  

 

What has kept you in SM vs jumping to SM-5? 

 

Competition.  I have debated doing both and would love too.  But building and racing both costs lots of money and time.  The family loves going to the track but if I were running 4 sessions or more a day that love might change. 

 

I have run the SM5 in a regional at VIR, a regional at Summit, and the 13 hour at VIR.  It was a blast and I would love to see that class grow.  If Mike would build one I would drive it as a favor to him

[Waterboy]

Dogma: a belief or set of beliefs that is accepted by the members of a group without being questioned or doubted.

 

There are several different types of memory errors, in which people may inaccurately recall details of events that did not occur, or they may simply misattribute the source of a memory. In other instances, imagination of a certain event can create confidence that such an event actually occurred. Causes of such memory errors may be due to certain cognitive factors, such as spreading activation, or to physiological factors, including brain damage, age or emotional factors. Furthermore, memory errors have been reported in individuals with schizophrenia and depression. The consequences of memory errors can have significant implications.

[Bench Racer]

4 years after they were listed in the GCR 2011, how many Spec MX-5/SM5 cars exist?

[Johnny D]

There are several different types of memory errors, in which people may inaccurately recall details of events that did not occur, or they may simply misattribute the source of a memory. In other instances, imagination of a certain event can create confidence that such an event actually occurred. Causes of such memory errors may be due to certain cognitive factors, such as spreading activation, or to physiological factors, including brain damage, age or emotional factors. Furthermore, memory errors have been reported in individuals with schizophrenia and depression. The consequences of memory errors can have significant implications.

 

NASA requires an onboard Video camera because of this.

J~