44 replies to this topic

[Danny Steyn]

Marc you are spot on. The mood in the tech shed was friendly and cooperative with everyone lending a hand. No one hid anything, no one kept anyone away. It was all in the open for all to see. Alex and Mat got to see my engine and parts close up. Tiley looked at my engine, Mike looked at Tiley's, and it was all very transparent and friendly, just the way it should be, IMHO.

[Jim Drago]

I never asked for an explanation. They ran my car with only one strap on the rear, it was left side dyno to right rear of my car. (diagonal)  The car weaved across the roller at lower rpms and settled in one spot at higher rpms. The numbers made little sense as HP was very high, almost 132 and TQ only 112. My best guess.... lower rpms when peak tq is recorded the car was wandering back and forth on drum? ( low TQ) and at high RPM, the car settled in one spot with little strapping load( one strap) and allowed it to make more peak HP? Just a guess. 

I pointed out the strap while they were dynoing the car... I was told " that strap will hold a 500 hp car" So much for procedure and consistency. IMO, the car would have been 2-3 better than "average" as the car was a rocket Thursday and Friday and has been for awhile. I needed that HP on Sunday as it was definitely the slowest of the top 6 cars.  Hopefully just intake butterflies. It will be on dyno tomorrow morning.  So we will see. 

dynoed car this am.. exactly where will left it.. Not sure if I am happy or sad.  

[Charlie Hayes]

So no engine swaps this before you come out west? Thats odd to experience such a fall off though... 

[Alex Bolanos]

Really cool event overall.  Congrats to Alex, Danny, and Mathew on their podium finishes!  What a fun race to watch.  As Danny said, watching Alex and his dad tear down their engine together in tech with their 300pc toolset from Harbor Freight was really the epitome of what club racing is supposed to be all about... good family fun.  

 

The whole concept of mandatory dyno sessions after each session was a great idea, and really helped to give all of the competitors some degree of comfort that they had as fair a chance as anyone else.  Everyone was handed out their dyno sheets at the Mazda banquet on Saturday and pretty much everyone shared their results openly.  Of the 8 cars sent for mandatory testing on Friday and Saturday, all were in the 123-126HP, except for one car that came up at 131.5 (obviously an erroneous set of pulls).  Jim, did the dyno guys ever give you an explanation as to why that happened?  

 

Regardless, it would be great to see the same thing at the Runoffs.  

 

 

Costco!! Not Harbor Freight!  Although a lot of the tools at our shop are from HF, hit or miss!  The tech guy came up to me before we started the tear down and said "Are you a driver or mechanic?"  I said "Yes"  He asked 2 more times and I answered the same way, my dad turned around cracking up, he finally got it and shook his head and left us alone.  It IS possible to wrench on your own car and run up front, everyone was willing to help in any way they could, thanks all!

[Jim Drago]

So no engine swaps this before you come out west? Thats odd to experience such a fall off though... 

 

Apparently no need to change engine.. but need to figure out what is going on  

[Ron Alan]

Apparently no need to change engine.. but need to figure out what is going on

Have seen a very strong 1.6 engine lay down on track...like something was going to fail...come in and dyno at the same number???

 

Someone needs to develop a drag meter...when things get hot strange sh#t happens. It could have nothing to do with the motor...or maybe it could??

[Mike Collins]

Jim,

 

Leave it the way it is...the rest of us need all the help we can get

[MPR22]

I left around 7.30pm on Sunday, having been cleared through tech by head NASA tech and the SM guys. Both Alex's engine and Mat's engine were already torn down and in the tech shed and I have no doubt that they passed as well. Really great to see everyone working together and lending a hand to get the cars torn apart. Huge props to Alex and his dad for doing the tear down themselves. Alex you have my respect and admiration on every level.

 

Things that were teched after the race were

1. Weight
2. Dyno (3rd time for me - 126Hp / 112 TQ which as far as I know was right in the mix with Mat and Alex. 
3. Whistle
4. Restrictor
5. Intake manifold
6. Exhaust manifold
7. Head plunge cuts / relief cuts
8. Cam profiles and pin location
9. Flywheel

HUGE HUGE thanks to Mike Rossini for delaying his trip back to NC to help pull my engine down ably supported by Ryan Downtown and Tom Fowler

 

John Mueller - I had already suggested to the top NASA guys that any class like SM that requires significant post race tech gets to race in the morning or preferably on Saturday, just in case there are any issues that need appealing. We made three flight changes to deal with the tech delay.

Danny,  

How does this dyno compare to the front runners.  X-Factor just finished my new 01 and we broke it in at the track.  Hoped to make the top 5 but my DNF on Friday dashed those hopes.  I didn't make it through the field like Balanos, no surprise I am not nearly as talented.  

 

http://s36.photobuck...EMPR22/library/

[Todd Green]

Have seen a very strong 1.6 engine lay down on track...like something was going to fail...come in and dyno at the same number???

Probably not Jim's problem, but I had a similar situation where my car was always fast at the start of a race, but fell off as time went on.  Tested everything in the garage and all checked out.  Finally got the bright idea of hooking my voltage level to my data acq and sure enough as the alternator got hot, it stopped putting out correct voltage dropping a a little bit lap, by lap.  New alternator and car is great from start to finish.

[Alex Bolanos]

Danny,  

How does this dyno compare to the front runners.  X-Factor just finished my new 01 and we broke it in at the track.  Hoped to make the top 5 but my DNF on Friday dashed those hopes.  I didn't make it through the field like Balanos, no surprise I am not nearly as talented.  

 

http://s36.photobuck...EMPR22/library/

 

Your third run is +2hp +7tq on my best, that's a VVT car no?

[MPR22]

Your third run is +2hp +7tq on my best, that's a VVT car no?

Yes.  New X-Factor VVT.

[Jim Drago]

Probably not Jim's problem, but I had a similar situation where my car was always fast at the start of a race, but fell off as time went on.  Tested everything in the garage and all checked out.  Finally got the bright idea of hooking my voltage level to my data acq and sure enough as the alternator got hot, it stopped putting out correct voltage dropping a a little bit lap, by lap.  New alternator and car is great from start to finish.

 

That has happened to me before and a common problem on the 99.. whether it needs it or not, it will have a new alternator when it leaves

[Mike Ferrara]

Hey Jim,
Shouldn't Alex have a few more awards in his profile? Just sayin!
Mike

[Jim Drago]

Hey Jim,
Shouldn't Alex have a few more awards in his profile? Just sayin!
Mike

nope? which?

[Ron Alan]

Danny,  

How does this dyno compare to the front runners.  X-Factor just finished my new 01 and we broke it in at the track.  Hoped to make the top 5 but my DNF on Friday dashed those hopes.  I didn't make it through the field like Balanos, no surprise I am not nearly as talented.  

 

http://s36.photobuck...EMPR22/library/

Were these numbers done at Atlanta? Any idea what temp the car was reading when these were recorded?

[MPR22]

Were these numbers done at Atlanta? Any idea what temp the car was reading when these were recorded?

Yes same dyno, on 8.30.14 late in the evening. The ambient conditions are visible on the sheet. Car was operated at 200-210 as read from back of the head.

[Danny Steyn]

Danny,  

How does this dyno compare to the front runners.  X-Factor just finished my new 01 and we broke it in at the track.  Hoped to make the top 5 but my DNF on Friday dashed those hopes.  I didn't make it through the field like Balanos, no surprise I am not nearly as talented.  

 

http://s36.photobuck...EMPR22/library/

 

Michael - those numbers are about the best we saw on that dyno, apart from Drago's 131/112. Most cars were in the 122-126 HP and 112- 116 TQ range. ON race day I recorded 126/112. Ambient conditions were 95F, 29.12in-Hg nand 36% Humidity - SAE 1.05. So in slightly cooler conditions your car pulled the same HP and +9 ftlbs more TQ than my '99. On paper you had the car to win!!!

 

I also see that the peak torque on your VVT occurs at the same place that it does on my VVT - around  4600RPM. My VVT is clearly a better car all the way to 5800 RPM at which point the '99 HP and TQ traces climb over the '02's. For many drivers the VVT could be a much faster car than the 99.

 

At Road Atlanta however we only spend approx 20 seconds of a 105 second lap under 5800 RPM which is why I chose to run the '99, despite having faster lap times on test day in the '02

 

Here is my pre-race analysis - the few seconds below 5800 RPm during the 3-4 upshift are negligible - its the long pulls at T1, T7 and T10 that are where the VVT has a real advantage.

 

[Ron Alan]

Yes same dyno, on 8.30.14 late in the evening. The ambient conditions are visible on the sheet. Car was operated at 200-210 as read from back of the head.

Well, with that info I would call that a winner!

 

If i'm completely wrong on this hopefully someone will correct me...but doesnt the VVT work off temp? And at what temp(stock location) does it kick in?

 

Interesting to see what I would consider lower torque numbers On the 99 cars but what would be expected on the 01+ cars?

[chris haldeman]

Vvt is oil controlled intake cam timing. Sadly even as the builder of that car and engine I'm not positive when vvt is changed. I thought it was rpm dictated not heat

[chris haldeman]

My 99's on same dyno fell into the range Danny listed. And Danny your spots for value of the vvt car at Atlanta are the exact reason that car was built. The spots you listed are inmo the most important spots of the track too turn a good lap,pass,and or defend