250 replies to this topic

[Caveman-kwebb99]

 

Cliff... while I appreciate you personal crusade to clean up SM, I personally believe the mass protest strategy, while effective, turns compliance into a very personal and targeted attack.  The SIC should have been a very fun event, but instead there were 2 who left the track immediately and didn't even race, and a whole bunch of people pissed off at one another.   Does anyone know who won the race by a margin of 0.008s ... or who won the SARRC Championship that resulted from the race?  Isn't that why we do this in the first place?

 

 

 

 

  Dillon won, and Selin won the sarrc title.

 

Just a siimple question who is it that left imediatly?  If  you are trying to say I left imediatly because of the man drama that is wrong.  I had been on vacation in Florida for a week and had  15 hr drive ahead of me and didnt think another 30 minutes on the track was worth wating around all day for therfore after running the 1.5 hour enduro I loaded up and headed out and had no idea what Cliff had in mind.  

 

I would be happy to have a voluntary whistling at the ARRC!  short of that a mass protest is what is neccesary to get the clean up started.  It isnt personal against anyone IMO...  many just need to know they are non compliant and I trust once they do they will make the apropriate changes.

[guest driver]

another observation from someone who was there at Daytona ... watching the drafting packs coming from all the way back to the exit of the bus stop, everyone is tapped out in 5th as they come by me standing close to the entry of turn 1;

"Notice how some cars are sputtering on the rev limiter just past the start/finish line while others are still pulling strong all the way down to the braking point into turn 1"?

that's a good 500' of additional acceleration ... hmmmm ... just an observation ...

[Jim Creighton]

We rained out today at Pro Cup practice so I had time to look at latest.

I will be at the ARRC early with the same whistler used at Daytona. I will whistle any and all who wish to be tested. And I'll be willing to immediately compare that whistler with another.

How about some suggestions to do at the ARRC in case a motor whistles too high. Weight penalty? Another class-SMO? I certainly don't want a mass of tear downs or shipped parts.

And that gives everyone two months before the Florida Majors to get anything fixed.

[LarryKing]

 

that's a good 500' of additional acceleration ... hmmmm ... just an observation ...

 

I raced at Daytona in May. Overheard from a spectator, "How come some of the Miatas are so much faster than the others?"

[MPR22]

another observation from someone who was there at Daytona ... watching the drafting packs coming from all the way back to the exit of the bus stop, everyone is tapped out in 5th as they come by me standing close to the entry of turn 1;

"Notice how some cars are sputtering on the rev limiter just past the start/finish line while others are still pulling strong all the way down to the braking point into turn 1"?

that's a good 500' of additional acceleration ... hmmmm ... just an observation ...

So, ECU swaps and checks should be in order at the races in Daytona?  Or do you think it was gear ratio? 

[Johnny D]

So, ECU swaps and checks should be in order at the races in Daytona?  Or do you think it was gear ratio? 

 

These are questions people should be asking.

 

And then... don't ask... So where can I get one?

J~

[guest driver]

as S.A. Crebleu would say, astute cartography experts at work inside that little metal box under the dash ... 

[Tom Sager]

If it were up to me, people that knowingly supply illegal parts (parts deliberately produced that are not in spec) to competitors would have their memberships in SCCA or NASA revoked or at least suspended.  An illegal ECU or blatant engine cheats like cams or way over on compression would be examples.  Yeah, tough to administer but one of the problems with club racing is that rarely are their any teeth in the penalties.  Downside risk is near nil.  

 

Fortunately, the majority of racers play it pretty straight I believe.  

[FTodaro]

We rained out today at Pro Cup practice so I had time to look at latest.

I will be at the ARRC early with the same whistler used at Daytona. I will whistle any and all who wish to be tested. And I'll be willing to immediately compare that whistler with another.

How about some suggestions to do at the ARRC in case a motor whistles too high. Weight penalty? Another class-SMO? I certainly don't want a mass of tear downs or shipped parts.

And that gives everyone two months before the Florida Majors to get anything fixed.

Jim lets assume a bunch of people get whistled voluntarily at the ARRC, the only ones SCCA should care about being DQed and the only drivers who have something to lose would be podium finishers.

 

In my view, at this stage of the game, we want people to come in voluntarily to whistle, to find out if they are legal and if not fix it. but if your going to punish them then i doubt anyone will voluntarily do it.

 

Now if you podium, its not voluntary so you get what you get, but i think people who do not know, want to know and should not get punished for trying to do the right thing, in the end.

 

Another two cents. I am up to a buck 70.

[Mike Collins]

As soon as the whistler becomes the absolute you are inviting oversize pistons/bores along with offset line bores....  Will the uniformed please stop jumping on the bandwagon!

 

 

I understand we have an issue we need to deal with.  Please let those that know what the F they are doing figure it out....  the whistler bandwagon is a little full at the moment and using that as an absolute IS A HUGE MISTAKE.....!!!!!

[Jim Creighton]

No way do I want to punish anyone. My offer was to let everyone find out if their motor is compliant for CR. However, if it is not, I do not think they would/should be able to race it as is against a compliant CR motor. My suggestion was for Atlanta Region to figure out a way that everyone can still race but that the winner has a compliant CR. Post race tech will obviously look at other things other than CR.

Does this make sense or has the mountain air here in Virginia effected my thought process today?

Having been the one who whistled the cars, I know who had what CR at Daytona. It would just seem to me that if any of those cars or anyone else does not either want to or does not have time to fix their motor, they could race either with the weight penalty or the SMO. THIS IS JUST FOR THE ARRC.

So, if you think this is a dumb offer, I will not pursue it with the Atlanta Region folks. My personal email is jcreig53@mindspring.com. If you'd rather not reply openly, just send me an email.

After that, everyone needs to be compliant for the Majors. And if all of you will recall, I whistled many different cars at the Majors at Sebring and it was random after qualifying and podium after the races. Since Homestead will be first and they have the facility where Palm Beach did not, you can expect to visit the tech shed after qualifying and the races.

As most of you who know me personally have come to realize, I'm not bashful about saying what I think and I've been around long enough not to get my feeling hurt. Spec Miata has provided many of you with an affordable place to race and everything possible should be done to keep it as close to Spec as possible. I still believe that a home built motor should be able to run close to a pro built one. You've pasted that point, but it's time now to close the gap a little. Rules creep can be the down fall of a class and in SCCA, we've gone out of our way to prove it over and over.

[James York]

How about some suggestions to do at the ARRC in case a motor whistles too high. Weight penalty? Another class-SMO? I certainly don't want a mass of tear downs or shipped parts.

 

How about DQ?  Just enforce the rules.

[guest driver]

sheesh Mike, truer words ain't never been spoken ... Whistler is a suckers placebo, by Homestead in January the pointy end will again have 3-4 + up on the uninformed ...

at this point only the Semper Fi sniper from Georgia can/will balance the scales, he's shooting custom .50 cal ammo, pick anyone off from 1500 yards, do not light a cigarette, he will see you ... time for you smart folks to step up and stop the madness.

[Dan Tiley]

How about some suggestions to do at the ARRC in case a motor whistles too high. Weight penalty? Another class-SMO? I certainly don't want a mass of tear downs or shipped parts.

 

 

Anyone who whistles over has to wear this t-shirt all weekend:

 

 

Honestly, if you just say (right now) that you're gonna whistle the crap out of people all weekend, cars will show up compliant to the new method.  Two of the six you whistled had our engine, both were over (under the new procedure, passed on the old), and they'll both be updated well before the ARRC..... Before the Goblin's Go at VIR later this month, in fact.  I have no doubt others will do the same.  Word spreads here faster than the news of a pregnant teen in high school.  

 

Again, really appreciate your involvement in this Jim (Creighton).  BTW.. I'll see if we can get the "I Blew It" T-Shirt in a Hawaiian button up version for you.

[David L]

Wow Dan really glad to see that your taking this thread so lightly.

 

It is a shame that you would contribute to the decline of the class by supplying ILLEGAL motors for your own profit.

 

Did your customers ask for ILLEGAL motors? Or did you take it upon yourself to supply them?

 

Just wondering? 

[Johnny D]

Wow Dan really glad to see that your taking this thread so lightly.

 

It is a shame that you would contribute to the decline of the class by supplying ILLEGAL motors for your own profit.

 

Did your customers ask for ILLEGAL motors? Or did you take it upon yourself to supply them?

 

Just wondering? 

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=zrlS7aekZkM

J~

[Dan Tiley]

Wow Dan really glad to see that your taking this thread so lightly.

 

It is a shame that you would contribute to the decline of the class by supplying ILLEGAL motors for your own profit.

 

Did your customers ask for ILLEGAL motors? Or did you take it upon yourself to supply them?

 

Just wondering? 

 

What???  Too soon???

[Bench Racer]

Jim Creighton, what has been the offical or un-offical blow number for the SCCA cars compression to be deemed a need for cc and calucalations? I would state a number I heard, but that's not my job.

 

Thank You

David Dewhurst

[Danny Steyn]

another observation from someone who was there at Daytona ... watching the drafting packs coming from all the way back to the exit of the bus stop, everyone is tapped out in 5th as they come by me standing close to the entry of turn 1;

"Notice how some cars are sputtering on the rev limiter just past the start/finish line while others are still pulling strong all the way down to the braking point into turn 1"?

that's a good 500' of additional acceleration ... hmmmm ... just an observation ...

 

Hey Carlos.  Tom Fowler, in his 2001 rental car #60 would get to the rev limiter when pushing a driver, even before the start finish line. Others were banging against the rev limiter too. Yet I ran one of the fastest times in qualifying, and NEVER once the entire weekend hit the rev limiter and NEVER hit the top speeds that other under our tent did. I never got over 134 mph. My 2002 car pulled all the way to the start finish line, just not at the speeds that some of the others did. And my ECU is bone stock. Just sayin!!!!

[Jim Creighton]

David and all, I have only had a couple whistle at .1 over and I've told those drivers to get it checked. The others have been in the .4 over range and all those agreed the motor was non compliant. Several were at the Runoffs and stated they did not have the motor cc'ed. They had borrowed parts to repair a damaged motor. One other was .5 over and the driver asked we cc the motor. But, after we pulled the head, we found non compliant valves and based the DQ on that rather than the CR. And another was at the ARRC and his engine builder agreed something was wrong. I was later told the wrong pistons/crank were in the motor. It was a .6 over.

I've never been told a specific tolerance, but all the tech guys I know who have used the whistler agree that .1 is a good figure to use as an allowance to consider variables such as build up of carbon, etc. To the best of my knowledge, there has been no official or unofficial number issued.

I'm going to busy tomorrow and traveling Sunday and Monday. I'll be at the Runoffs Tuesday in time to pull the first post qualifying inspection for EP at 9:30 AM. Remember, many of the prod cars are limited prep so I'll have more whistling to do.