118 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

The ARRC is a great event! My favorite races of the year have always been the ARRC and the Sprints. Ironically the only racing goal I have ever set for myself was to win the ARRC and I never have. Congratulations to all that have. It is a big one and such be celebrated as such.

The East Street gang had this race on our schedule, but after the fiasco at the Runoffs. We collectively decided to pull it off the schedule early last week. I have also advised all my customers to skip the event as well as we have no intention of racing SM1 or anything else other than SM. While I have my car ready to go (and as good as ever) I feel it would be in really poor taste to race the ARRC while my customers have to sit and watch the event.

Since we will have no skin in this game at all. I advise all of you to go and have fun. Leave the protest forms at home other than on track incidents or for serious outliers in performance. Enjoy one of the best events of the year! We often take what we have for granted, don't let this be one of those events! It will be one of the best races of the year.
Good luck to all and be safe. please keep us updated!
Jim

[RussMcB]

Link to who's entered:  https://www.motorspo...D8#.VElH4hZ5KSo

 

I'm looking forward to it, as always.  I've only missed one or two since 1997 when we ran a night time enduro (in the rain with The Dip!  How's that for a fun combo?). 

[Jim Creighton]

There is no SM1 for this race as far as I have heard from the Region RE and Race Director. I can assure you there is no SM1 in SARRC. And there will be no witch hunts in tech. We are conducting the ARRC as business as usual. As far as I am concerned in tech, bring a car that has been raced all year with a compliant compression ratio and you will be good in tech. My offer still goes to anyone who would like to bring their car up to tech on Thursday while the test day is running and I will check the compression ratio for you with the cam cover off. This will be done in private and is for your information. I will NOT use this for any part of tech for the ARRC.

If I had a crystal ball, I would look in it and see SCCA allowing a 1 mm blend to the cut heads for 2015. And since this race is a 2015 SARRC race, oh wait, I'm not allowed to predict the future.

We, in Atlanta Region, want the ARRC to be fun with good, clean close racing. We have invited the local community to bring their children to the track on Halloween and let them trick or treat. We're going to have special prizes for the best decorated team paddock area. Personally, I like Reese's Cups and dark chocolate.

[Caveman-kwebb99]

There is no SM1 for this race as far as I have heard from the Region RE and Race Director. I can assure you there is no SM1 in SARRC. And there will be no witch hunts in tech. We are conducting the ARRC as business as usual. As far as I am concerned in tech, bring a car that has been raced all year with a compliant compression ratio and you will be good in tech. My offer still goes to anyone who would like to bring their car up to tech on Thursday while the test day is running and I will check the compression ratio for you with the cam cover off. This will be done in private and is for your information. I will NOT use this for any part of tech for the ARRC.

If I had a crystal ball, I would look in it and see SCCA allowing a 1 mm blend to the cut heads for 2015. And since this race is a 2015 SARRC race, oh wait, I'm not allowed to predict the future.

We, in Atlanta Region, want the ARRC to be fun with good, clean close racing. We have invited the local community to bring their children to the track on Halloween and let them trick or treat. We're going to have special prizes for the best decorated team paddock area. Personally, I like Reese's Cups and dark chocolate.

 

Had you posted this response a week or so earlier I would have attended.  I have already made other plans, I have waited ever since the runoffs drama for a descision to be made and we are still in limbo.  I also just personally have a hard time going to a race with essencially the very same equipment and prep level to my car as Mark Drennan who was denied a championship and being told it is now OK.  If it is OK then his championship should be given back to him, but that is for another thread and discussion.  

 

I wish all those that attend this great event the best of luck, sad to miss the ARRC this year it has been one of my favorite races.

[Brocodile]

Thank you, Jim Creighton, for taking a practical approach to tech for one of the biggest races of the year...which appears to be suffering for numbers this year due to compliance concerns. The whistler compression ratio gambit has been exposed. Jim has generously offered to whistle cylinder heads (cover off and no repercussions) for those unsure that they are compliant. From a performance standpoint, compression ratio is far, far more significant than even the most extreme work on the STR. I, for one, am totally fine with racing anyone technically non-compliant with the plunge-cut rule pending the rule revision. I think my head is compliant in this area, but I'll take Jim at his word in case it's not. I do not think a little work around the plunge cuts will skew the outcome of the ARRC; however, I do feel that the absence of a number of great drivers will diminish the reward of winning, and degrade the experience for everyone involved.

 

I second Jim Drago's statement about paper. At least for now, there is no need for more protests (except for clear outliers). The protests at Daytona and the runoffs have put the spotlight on compliance. The rules and enforcement are now being deliberated at the highest level. That's progress.

 

There's still time to sign up. Come on and let's race.

[Steve Scheifler]

... From a performance standpoint, compression ratio is far, far more significant than even the most extreme work on the STR. ...

That depends on the degree of each. If we are talking about ~0.4 on compression vs. the more conspicuous work done on the plunge cuts then they are probably in the same ballpark though different in nature. Keep in mind that more compression is not adding displacement or even the quantity of air/fuel you get into the cylinder. All it does is squeeze the charge tighter before lighting the fuse. The difference generally tends to be more low to mid torque and not upper RPM power, all the more so with a restrictor plate. A clear advantage but probably over a narrower range than improved flow (head work) which actually increases the amount of fuel/air getting pulled into the cylinder. Without a restrictor plate you could easily get more benefit from aggressive STR work than from +0.4 CR, but the plates blur everything.

However, in terms of deserving "outrage" over blatant, no excuses no grey area cheating, a builder who owns a Whistler and tries to slip by on claims that the instructions are unclear takes the prize regardless of how much difference it makes.

[Brocodile]

Steve, I can tell from your posts on other threads that you know your stuff. As you note, we run plates, Besides, even with Jim's assurances, I doubt anyone with aggressively hogged-out ports would show up at the ARRC. If they do, I'm still willing to race them. As you also said, the plates blur everything.

 

My agenda for now: Encourage drivers to show up at the ARRC and make it the great weekend it's always been. The rules debate can and should continue here and elsewhere. I'm just suggesting that we give it rest at the ARRC. The event organizers appear to feel the same way.

 

I hope Jim Drago and his posse change their minds. You, too, Kyle the Caveman. And the rest of you.

[Steve Scheifler]

Agree 100% with all of that.

[Danny Steyn]

Thanks JC. Right thing to do.

Really hope we can get more guys to attend and kick my butt. Soooo tired of getting beat by Cliffie!!! Need more drivers. Drago, Tiley, the East Street boys, c'mon guys, get your asses to Road Atlanta. Let's have some fun, close racing with no drama. We are all friends after all. Would be nice to see some huge grins and smiles after a great race!!!

[Tyler Kicera]

I feel it would be in really poor taste to race the ARRC while my customers have to sit and watch the event.
 

I applaud Jim for staying away for the sake of his customers.  Its a classy move even if some disagree.

 

Being all buddy-buddy now doesn't make it right when you're sitting on this side of the fence...sorry

 

That being said, with so many legal cars showing up it ought to be one hell of a race, ehhh!?...26 car lead pack?...who knows, anyone could win!

 

Glad to hear tech is being handled the way it is.  Best of luck to all.

[FTodaro]

There is no SM1 for this race as far as I have heard from the Region RE and Race Director. I can assure you there is no SM1 in SARRC. And there will be no witch hunts in tech. We are conducting the ARRC as business as usual. As far as I am concerned in tech, bring a car that has been raced all year with a compliant compression ratio and you will be good in tech. My offer still goes to anyone who would like to bring their car up to tech on Thursday while the test day is running and I will check the compression ratio for you with the cam cover off. This will be done in private and is for your information. I will NOT use this for any part of tech for the ARRC.

If I had a crystal ball, I would look in it and see SCCA allowing a 1 mm blend to the cut heads for 2015. And since this race is a 2015 SARRC race, oh wait, I'm not allowed to predict the future.

We, in Atlanta Region, want the ARRC to be fun with good, clean close racing. We have invited the local community to bring their children to the track on Halloween and let them trick or treat. We're going to have special prizes for the best decorated team paddock area. Personally, I like Reese's Cups and dark chocolate.

Jim you are a class act. I like all of it.

[Keith Andrews]

What I'm reading and completely support, is this race may be run as normal dispite the failings of the SCCA National.  I hope that works out.  I hope everyone has a good weekend. 

[High Chair]

Thanks JC. Right thing to do.

Really hope we can get more guys to attend and kick my butt. Soooo tired of getting beat by Cliffie!!! Need more drivers. Drago, Tiley, the East Street boys, c'mon guys, get your asses to Road Atlanta. Let's have some fun, close racing with no drama. We are all friends after all. Would be nice to see some huge grins and smiles after a great race!!!

I will be there! I just haven't registered yet. Should be a fun weekend to catch up with all my peeps.

[Jack Marr]

If I may.....

 

Contrary to what Jim heard, SM1 is being offered at the ARRC, it is there just in case someone wants it. I will be suprised if anyone enters.

 

The Runoff issues are NOT a new way to play "gotcha", there will be no witch hunts in Tech. Both post qualifying and post race impounds will be similar to what you have seen there for the last few years. What you will get is good racing, a great party (I hear there is a band this year) and a good time.

 

Join us at the ARRC...and if Mr. Drago changes his mind I will introduce him to the secret donut stash in the tower!

 

Jack Marr

Chief Steward - 2014 ARRC

[Steve Scheifler]

That depends on the degree of each. If we are talking about ~0.4 on compression vs. the more conspicuous work done on the plunge cuts then they are probably in the same ballpark though different in nature. ...

Hate to interrupt the group hug, but I heard from someone who has tested the "blend" and also did before & after dyno work on a car with +0.4 compression (getting it to the allowed number) . He would take the CR and said he got more HP than torque. Go figure!

Anyway, wanted to mention that since reliable data certainly trumps theory. So all the more reason to save a little outrage for that scandal. Whatever you do, don't let them kill the use of the Whistler!

[RWP80000]

From previous post #15:

"Hate to interrupt the group hug, but I heard from someone who has tested the "blend" and also did before & after dyno work on a car with +0.4 compression (getting it to the allowed number) . He would take the CR and said he got more HP than torque. Go figure!"

Lets do some figuring;

 

By definition   "Horsepower= (Torque X RPM)/5252".  And assuming that the observation of more HP than Torque was in reference to a percentage gain over baseline values.  Lets look at a hypothetical situation which is not far from SM values.  

 

Lets just say the baseline Peak torque value is 110 lb-ft @ 5300 rpm and the peak HP is 120 HP at 6300 rpm.

 

From the formula, the value for torque at peak horse power would calculate to be 100 lb-ft =(120 X 5252)/6300 ) 6302.4 rpm in order to be exactly 100 lb-ft.  

 

For discussion let's say that with increased compression, peak torque was observed to increased by +2% (2.2 ft-lbs to 112.2 ft-lb from baseline peak torque reading) and the horsepower was up say 4% (+ 4.8 Hp ).  Lets also say that the torque value at Peak HP was up the same 2.2 lb-ft amount as at Peak torque.  This would make the torque at peak power be  102.2 lb-ft.

Then, in order to obtain a 4% gain in Peak HP, the RPM value for peak HP (using the 102.2 torque value) would have to increase from 6302.4 to 6413.4 rpm, (+111 RPM or 1.76 % increase from baseline).

 

So, from the observation that there was a greater increase in horsepower compared to torque you would conclude that increasing compression ratio also reduced the fall off in torque at the upper end of the horsepower curve in addition to the overall (2.2 lb-ft) increase in torque. 

 

From another post there was a discussion of quirky HP and Torque numbers on Jim Drago's car (low peak torque, 112 vs say 120 and high HP 132 vs 126 to the best of my recollection) and discussion as to the car not being properly tied down.  I would concur that if the car was not securely tied down the low torque numbers could be due to tire slippage at the interface to the dyno roll(s) lowering peak torque.  In the peak power RPM range, the dyno could have registered a spike in torque due to a bounce or flare condition.  The detailed dyno data file should contain the torque spike reading in order for it to have been picked up in the HP calculation but the plot curve may have filtered it out so it was not visible on the print out.  

[Tom OPM]

We are all in bringing 13 cars. One of the most fun events events of the year. I have attended every one since it was started. Weather looks great, racing should be also. Still plenty of time to register. Tech and stewards on the same page. Don't bring illegal but no witch hunts also. Great way to end the year.

[Craig Berry]

I really hate not to be at this event. Finally feel confident at Rd Atl (I am a slow learner), and the SE div drivers are my favorite to test myself against. Strange situation for many of us, but gonna miss Tom and his group, as well as others. Good luck Danny, Cliff, High Chair, Alex and many other outstanding racers. As usual gonna be a hard fought SE event. We will be following, and HOPE to be at Sebring

[bmarshall1]

Thanks JC. Right thing to do.

Really hope we can get more guys to attend and kick my butt. Soooo tired of getting beat by Cliffie!!! Need more drivers. Drago, Tiley, the East Street boys, c'mon guys, get your asses to Road Atlanta. Let's have some fun, close racing with no drama. We are all friends after all. Would be nice to see some huge grins and smiles after a great race!!!

Danny,

 

I'll be there with my tired '99 drinking oil at $7.50 per quart and try to kick your butt, that will only happen if you're running on 3 cylinders, and maybe not even then!  All I ask if for everyone to pass carefully =).  See you all there!

[RussMcB]

I don't see a "bmarshall" or car #23 entered.

 

I do see some people from NC.  I guess you are one of them?