535 replies to this topic

[Jim Drago]

 

 

p.s. I think quite a few of you have a "catch the cheaters and send them home in a box attitude".  Possible to adopt a "tell us what the cheaters are doing so we can decide if we should make those modifications part of the rules" attitude instead? 

 

p.p.s. We would not be taking about any of this IF Mazda could produce each car with, how many moving parts?, in exactly the same way.

 

 

OMG.. There is a first time for everything

[Ron Alan]

Ron, no it does NOT.  I can guarantee that nobody would have been able to tell to which head I had installed new seats and plunge cut to make look like OE.

Ok...mine did. I just assumed the specified diameter dimension was larger slightly than OEM Plunge? 

 

Signed...part of the ignorant masses!

[Karl]

<<OMG.. There is a first time for everything  >>

 

...now back to the topic? (double smiley back at you!!)

[MPR22]

You seen dat too? 

 

Kinda same deal at Runoffs also.

  It is not unusual for a group of 4 or less drivers to break away at any given race.  It is somewhat rare for 5 or more to be in the hunt at most races.   

 

It wasn't a car parity issue in either case, it was a driver parity issue.  And oh by the way, that is what we all do this for.

[Jim Drago]

Ron, no it does NOT.  I can guarantee that nobody would have been able to tell to which head I had installed new seats and plunge cut to make look like OE.

 

 

I have to disagree here..  Someone who knows the heads as well as you and the other SM engine builders would be able to tell.  "prove" and "tell" are two entirely different things. If the rumors are true, they will not need to "prove"  

[Karl]

We wait and see.  While you wait, take a look at this.

 

 

 

This shows it all.  Car parity in the first few laps, the rewards and penalties of driving well, poorly and the way the cars can go off during the race.

 

Note that Sammy, who walked away up front in his NA 1800 did not have the fastest lap.  What do make of them apples? 

[Bad Rusty]

 

We have a democratic republic because the founding fathers knew that the masses were and would probably always be ignorant of the whole picture.  

Uhmm.. We're a Consitutional Republic because our founding fathers "feared" a pure democracy, not because the masses were ignorant, but because a pure democracy would not provide security or protect private property (insert re-distribution of wealth here).

 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, STR and "parity"

[NPiekarski]

 

Kiss your wife and hug the kids cuz that's what's important, not this silly stuff.

This is about the most useful post I've found today. Thanks for keeping it real John.

[Todd Green]

Note that Sammy, who walked away up front in his NA 1800 did not have the fastest lap.  What do make of them apples? 

 

Sammy was also disqualified for running an illegal car, so I'm not sure that point is valid.

[mesa balancing racing engi]

I have to disagree here..  Someone who knows the heads as well as you and the other SM engine builders would be able to tell.  "prove" and "tell" are two entirely different things. If the rumors are true, they will not need to "prove"  

As a new member to the site I must agree with Jim everyone knew this was going on from the get go. I have built spec legal engines for customers who wanted to run legal engines both for local and run offs my engines and drivers have won every were and set records at every track from Sebring,Daytona,PBIR Homestead . Everyone of these customers went  elsewhere when they couldn't compete with my legal engines as a result of all this. Every engine purchased by every single customer has been inspected and found to have cylinder heads that were machined in this manner and many found to have incorrect static compression as well. I have to ask as a racer were does this end because there's manifolds that are also extruded and a half dozen other parts also modified. I stopped building spec engines for this same reason , I can build and develop any type of racing engine without the politics you guys have the best competition the best drivers the best organization and its all f---ed up because this. Find one shop to build the heads with number ID  Mazda speed parts or it will never end.

[Jamz14]

Uhmm.. We're a Consitutional Republic because our founding fathers "feared" a pure democracy, not because the masses were ignorant, but because a pure democracy would not provide security or protect private property (insert re-distribution of wealth here).

 

Back to your regularly scheduled programming, STR and "parity"

Not correct. They went for a republic over a democracy because the founders understood that the masses are woefully inadequate in even understanding the situations and are prone to emotional thinking over rational thought. Security was a prime fact in the founders (Hamilton, Madison, Jay) supporting ratification of the constitution but not super important over the decision for a democracy over a republic. That was based on the founders KNOWING that the masses were not capable of making policy decision as a whole. Exactly how is someone from the hollers of West Virginia supposed to be educated on what is going on on the shores of Tripoli?

[Bad Rusty]

Not correct. They went for a republic over a democracy because the founders understood that the masses are woefully inadequate in even understanding the situations and are prone to emotional thinking over rational thought. Security was a prime fact in the founders (Hamilton, Madison, Jay) supporting ratification of the constitution but not super important over the decision for a democracy over a republic. That was based on the founders KNOWING that the masses were not capable of making policy decision as a whole. Exactly how is someone from the hollers of West Virginia supposed to be educated on what is going on on the shores of Tripoli?

Well, I agree with your statement, I just don't see it making mine incorrect.  I wish they would have given us a better plan KNOWING that the ruling minorities (Political class) would soon not be capable of making policy desicisions as a whole as well.  I guess I'll need to watch V for Vandetta again today.

 

To those who served so Jamz and I could have this conversation on Veteran's Day, THANK YOU!

[Jamz14]

Rusty, it was only a small distinction. Republic vs Democracy was not debated for reasons of security. Republic or Confederacy was debated for reasons of security (constitution ratification arguments found in the Federalist Papers).

 

Republic or Democracy as a governmental model was debated because of perceived ignorance and stupidity of the people by the founders and from the fear of mob rule over those that didn't hold the majority.

 

The basic disagreement was in that the founders (some anyways) definitely found the populace to be either stupid or ignorant and incapable of actually running the government. The founders also gave us a mechanism to rid ourselves of politicians that were also stupid and/or ignorant; it is called voting. Which again boils down to the stupidity of the masses. Poly Sci 101 asks the question; should politicians represent the will of the people or should politicians represent the interest of the people? These are two distinctly different things. My belief is the latter (matches a republic more than a democracy). That politicians play to the ignorant masses during elections, and then are supposed to go back and represent the interests of the masses when they actual begin their work and are not campaigning. And interests meaning; doing whats good for them even if they don't agree with it because they are too..........whatever to understand what is good for them. There are some correlations here with the whole head controversy.

 

But what I do agree on is the wonderfulness of being an American and being able to speak our minds and debate without fear of going to jail. A gift that some would trade for the comfort of security. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Franklin

[Caveman-kwebb99]

 

But what I do agree on is the wonderfulness of being an American and being able to speak our minds and Debur without fear of going to jail. A gift that some would trade for the comfort of security. "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Franklin

 

corrected thank you!

[Bench Racer]

corrected thank you!

Two rr's please in deburr.

[Ron Alan]

Nice and pithy James! And interesting I might add! We need a break...

 

Better word Kyle would be whittle   

[38bfast]

To all that believe the stock everything is the way to go then SSB or SSC is the class for you. Oh wait they got rid of those two classes due to lack of participation. Be very carfull what you ask for you may just get it.

This has all been blown way out of proportion. We had a rule to achieve better parity and save racers cost. The rule was inforcable and was inforced, penalties were assessed. Process worked as designed. End of story, move on.

What is going on now completely escapes me.

[38bfast]

If people were realy serious about fixing the head problem once and for all we would sign up for CNC spec heads. All the exact same and very easily to tech. Can't get any better than that for parity and have vs have nots.

[Ron Alan]

To all that believe the stock everything is the way to go then SSB or SSC is the class for you. Oh wait they got rid of those two classes due to lack of participation. Be very carfull what you ask for you may just get it.

This has all been blown way out of proportion. We had a rule to achieve better parity and save racers cost. The rule was inforcable and was inforced, penalties were assessed. Process worked as designed. End of story, move on.

What is going on now completely escapes me.

Ralph...please dont confuse the issue with common sense. Those who felt they understood the rule and followed it as written have been sent to the wood shed...leave the axes in there please

[Bench Racer]

Ralph...please dont confuse the issue with common sense. Those who felt they understood the rule and followed it as written have been sent to the wood shed...leave the axes in there please

If there were a death penalty rule for Spec Miata as there is for SRF competitors would learn to read/understand/follow rules in a hurry or be gone after the second offence. Selective reading is not accecptable.