535 replies to this topic

[Tom Sager]

If there were a death penalty rule for Spec Miata as there is for SRF competitors would learn to read/understand/follow rules in a hurry or be gone after the second offence. Selective reading is not accecptable.  
 

 

I'd say that as a community most would favor more tech and more penalties.  

[john mueller]

It's been brought to my attention that I'm being a dick...  That all this has gone to my head with me being in "the group".  It's possible.

 

Compression-gate then Head-gate back to back...  Damn.

 

So, sorry be being a dick, it's not my intention.  I take this stuff seriously and my role within.  I'm just flat tired of the BS and the folks who did this to our class.  

[Tom Hampton]

It's been brought to my attention that I'm being a dick... That all this has gone to my head with me being in "the group". It's possible.

Compression-gate then Head-gate back to back... Damn.

So, sorry be being a dick, it's not my intention. I take this stuff seriously and my role within. I'm just flat tired of the BS and the folks who did this to our class.

This, I appreciate. We are all high strung, A types... Most of whom are paid to be "dicks" every now and again.

I appreciate the recognition and acknowledgement.

[Bench Racer]

I'd say that as a community most would favor more tech and more penalties.  

Ah, I get it. A system our community follows similar to our repeat offenders that flow in and out of the court and jail system. How about, we require more within our community to use their intelligence when reading/understanding the GCR rather than their arrogance. Said with a    

 

PS:

Was talking with Erik yesterday. They have within the latest Fast Track sharped the teeth in their death penalty rule.

[Johnny D]

Ah, I get it. A system our community follows similar to our repeat offenders that flow in and out of the court and jail system. How about, we require more within our community to use their intelligence when reading/understanding the GCR rather than their arrogance. Said with a    

 

PS:

Was talking with Erik yesterday. They have within the latest Fast Track sharped the teeth in their death penalty rule.

 

Sorry I'm dyslexic, I thought it was CRG, Competition Reference Guide.

So you really have to do those things they say ??   

J~

[JRHille]

If the goal is trying to make a lot of people happy with a rule change, do something to improve the NA car's raceability.  It is no question that they are at a disadvantage.  Maybe not just looking at lap times, but if a 1.6 or a 1.8 is side by side with an NB, the NB will win off the corner every time.  While there are a small percentage of NA cars that can hang with us in our NB cars, the vast majority can not. 

 

A moderate prep level NB will always be MY choice over driving a "top" level NA car, I'm sure many would agree...

 

I dont understand this huge disparity perceived by some, unless its just about the cars model year. The class is better than it ever has been, lets just make it a little better by getting some of those pop up cars a little closer to the front, not cutting off everybodys nuts...

[Qik Nip]

If the goal is trying to make a lot of people happy with a rule change, do something to improve the NA car's raceability.  It is no question that they are at a disadvantage.  Maybe not just looking at lap times, but if a 1.6 or a 1.8 is side by side with an NB, the NB will win off the corner every time.  While there are a small percentage of NA cars that can hang with us in our NB cars, the vast majority can not. 

 

A moderate prep level NB will always be MY choice over driving a "top" level NA car, I'm sure many would agree...

 

I dont understand this huge disparity perceived by some, unless its just about the cars model year. The class is better than it ever has been, lets just make it a little better by getting some of those pop up cars a little closer to the front, not cutting off everybodys nuts...

Very classy for a NB guy to say this Justin (and emblematic of real sportsmanship). Beyond the NB getting out of corners faster, they can also brake a few feet later (due to better bump steer properties?). Bottom line: The 1.6 car needs a "bit" of help to be broadly competitive for the podium. 

Rick  

[LarryKing]

I'm thinking we could have just as much fun as we ever did with a completely stock Miata.

 

Supporting evidence: https://www.youtube....h?v=QvyJm0eCTjs

[SaulSpeedwell]

Things that I think matter that I *think* I know about the 1.6 versus the '99:

 

-Stickier, taller, and heavier tires have hurt the torque-starved 1.6 more than the other cars.

 

-A light flywheel is a bad idea. The simple way to think of this is the faster the tach is sweeping from idle to redline, the more effect a light flywheel has.  In road racing our 125 HP commuter Skittles, the tach is NEVER sweeping fast.  Using track and dyno acceleration data, years ago, I think I calculated a "cheap" Fidanza lightened flywheel to be worth 3 HP in first gear and 0.2HP in 5th gear.

 

-Cams and cam gear games are a bad idea.  You can get a few more HP of top-end power, but negligible or worse low and mid-range torque.

 

-The 1.6 slows down as a function of high air temperature and heat soak more than the other cars.  The 1.6 runs at higher IAT compared to ambient than the other cars.   You may notice the 1.6s fall back in hot weather or at the end of races, versus setting blistering qually times in the cold and falling back LESS on cold days.

 

-The straight intakes are, to some extent, hood-up "dyno queens".  With the hood down, they suck hot stagnant air from the master cylinder area.  I think the overall efficiency of the EFI and the engine can also be why the 1.6 slows down as it gets hot, but I can't quantify it or prove it.

 

-A special 1.6 intake to suck cold air would be expensive - but allowing a provision for cold air to be funneled and insulated to the master cylinder/air filter area would be cheap and "DIY-able".

 

Short of an actual gearing change or migrating the 1.6s to 1.8 mills (http://www.flyinmiat...isc/1.8swap.pdf), I don't see a realistic solution for "adding torque". 

 

Bottom line:  Weight and RP adjustments seem like the smart move - but I do believe that giving the 1.6 a provision for cold(er) intake air would help parity overall, and make the car more raceable.

[Steve Scheifler]

^^!!!

[B(Kuch)Kucera45]

Things that I think matter that I *think* I know about the 1.6 versus the '99:

-Stickier, taller, and heavier tires have hurt the torque-starved 1.6 more than the other cars.

-A light flywheel is a bad idea. The simple way to think of this is the faster the tach is sweeping from idle to redline, the more effect a light flywheel has. In road racing our 125 HP commuter Skittles, the tach is NEVER sweeping fast. Using track and dyno acceleration data, years ago, I think I calculated a "cheap" Fidanza lightened flywheel to be worth 3 HP in first gear and 0.2HP in 5th gear.

-Cams and cam gear games are a bad idea. You can get a few more HP of top-end power, but negligible or worse low and mid-range torque.

-The 1.6 slows down as a function of high air temperature and heat soak more than the other cars. The 1.6 runs at higher IAT compared to ambient than the other cars. You may notice the 1.6s fall back in hot weather or at the end of races, versus setting blistering qually times in the cold and falling back LESS on cold days.

-The straight intakes are, to some extent, hood-up "dyno queens". With the hood down, they suck hot stagnant air from the master cylinder area. I think the overall efficiency of the EFI and the engine can also be why the 1.6 slows down as it gets hot, but I can't quantify it or prove it.

-A special 1.6 intake to suck cold air would be expensive - but allowing a provision for cold air to be funneled and insulated to the master cylinder/air filter area would be cheap and "DIY-able".





Short of an actual gearing change or migrating the 1.6s to 1.8 mills (http://www.flyinmiat...isc/1.8swap.pdf), I don't see a realistic solution for "adding torque".

Bottom line: Weight and RP adjustments seem like the smart move - but I do believe that giving the 1.6 a provision for cold(er) intake air would help parity overall, and make the car more raceable.

You need to take off those golf shoes and put a suit back on and come and play again !

Or are you hanging out with Mellman at his retirement home in Florida ? Lol !!!

Hell don't you miss picking on Drago ?

[38bfast]

I'd say that as a community most would favor more tech and more penalties.

Not sure of that Tom. I find more cheater stuff on mid and back pack cars than the front runners. I guess I should clarify. The closer to the front the cheats are much harder to find and have less impact on performance. The guy at the back will be very upset when he gets busted. Many don't even know what they have done is non compliant. Many just don't care. Many don't want to spend the money to do it right. The pool is not clean at either end.

Everyone wants more tech until it happens to them. Mark my words on this one.

[Bruce Wilson]

If the goal is trying to make a lot of people happy with a rule change, do something to improve the NA car's raceability.  It is no question that they are at a disadvantage.  Maybe not just looking at lap times, but if a 1.6 or a 1.8 is side by side with an NB, the NB will win off the corner every time.  While there are a small percentage of NA cars that can hang with us in our NB cars, the vast majority can not. 

 

A moderate prep level NB will always be MY choice over driving a "top" level NA car, I'm sure many would agree...

 

I dont understand this huge disparity perceived by some, unless its just about the cars model year. The class is better than it ever has been, lets just make it a little better by getting some of those pop up cars a little closer to the front, not cutting off everybodys nuts...

 

Why would I want to run up front or "hang" with the NB cars if I have no potential to win???  I'm not in racing to do anything but win!

[Ron Alan]

I'm thinking we could have just as much fun as we ever did with a completely stock Miata.

 

Supporting evidence: https://www.youtube....h?v=QvyJm0eCTjs

Obviously that has been around along time...but first time i have seen it! REALLY fun and interesting to hear what the drivers say about the cars. Body roll, no camber, stock tires? At the end almost all of the cars were dented...but no violent offs because the tires couldnt touch! The racecraft was really cool to see...the 3rd guy in line ate up those battleing in front of him, Like a snake with everyong trying to stay in the draft! Thanks Denny...

[JRHille]

The point of my post was to say that the NA cars need something done so they have an equal chance to win...

Mark we need someone like you in a leadership position

[SaulSpeedwell]

The point of my post was to say that the NA cars need something done so they have an equal chance to win...

Mark we need someone like you in a leadership position

 

Thank for the kind words, JH, but you have good leaders now, as far as I can tell - the SMAC/CRB was much worse back in "the good old days"   I haven't been on track recently enough to "know" anything for sure, but it "seems" like the NAs need a little help.  Your opinion matters more than mine here, as I've watched you campaign what appear to have been "equal prep" 1.6 and '99, and the '99 sure looks better? 

 

It's a shame the class has gotten so expensive (a lot of it due to parts cost and intangible stuff the laptimer can't "feel"), but my Spidey-Sense is that the frontrunning cars are actually closer to GCR-compliant than they were back in "the good old days"! 

 

2004-2006 seem like the true "Wild West" years to me, where a few people were just plain betting Tech wouldn't even LOOK, even at the ARRC and Runoffs. 

 

Having said that, I have always been discouraged at how "potentially non-compliant" an SM (and SSB!  and SSC!) car needs to be to be A-1 speedy.  This is somewhat a reality of Mazda production variances without someone like SCCA Enterprises ruling with an iron fist re: SRF.

 

If I wanted to have fun for minimum coin, I'd still join SM again.  If I wanted to be a national frontrunner and Runoffs contender for 5-10 years in the same car and not be constantly worried about resale or COTY or EBOTY or being a schmuck for being too legal or having my reputation trashed by going a bit too far into the gray, I think I'd run SRF.