153 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

Whether there was any cheating or not, whether there was just deburring or not, I have NO IDEA as the results have NOT been made public.

 A simple reminder from the summit team letter.

It needs to be stated that the heads examined at the Runoffs were modified on varying levels, but each head found out of compliance was in violation of the rules as they are written.

 

Additionally, this is not simply an issue with de-burring, but rather actual smoothing, blending and porting on the sharp edge from the plunge cut.

 

My letters have been sent.

[Pete Maerz]

Pete, reasonable people can agree to disagree, not hold it personal and go have a beer afterwords IMO.

 

Frank,

Agreed. That's why we call it a club!

[tony senese]

The dimension of 1/4 inch is from the end of the ferrous metal, or to say another way, from where the casting starts.... NOT the top of the valve seat.  

[tony senese]

[Brandon]

Best Answer

Thank you for the correction!

[tony senese]

By the way, that drawing isn't quite to scale, Miata intake valves are 33mm across, so the 6.4 mm should be about 20% of the width of the valve in that picture, As shown it is about 30% or 11mm. (not my drawing)

[Brandon]

Someone sitting in the home office with valves & a caliper on their desk?!

 

[tony senese]

LOL, home office yes, valves and caliper in the garage however.... my wife does not like grease in the house!!!

[Parity]

Please don't suggest .250" is de-burring. It's porting plain and simple.

[Parity]

BTW - Tony Senese will be doing tear downs for tech at all NASA NE events. He's used to rebuilding cars in the paddock in time to race.

[tony senese]

Please don't suggest .250" is de-burring. It's porting plain and simple.

EXACTLY!!!!  I may have been born in the morning..... but not THIS morning!!!!

[chris haldeman]

Drawing needs too show the straight down plunge cut on short side. This cut 90* too guide area measures between .100-.150 in the center of the short side it grows in length away from center towards where the short side becomes the long side. Long side then increases too a max of 12mm. Rw8000 posted some pics. It needs too be clear maintaining that length is very important too flow and would never be removed or flattened. Original number on the drawing was too allow
.150 but needed too increase because of casting variations.

[chris haldeman]

By no means is the number the total amount of debur. There needed too be A number that included all castings.

[Johnny D]

You guys make it sound like it either the stock head or the petition, it's not.

 

I hope the letters going out are what you think it should be, not just pick one of these ^^.

J~

[Ron Alan]

EXACTLY!!!!  I may have been born in the morning..... but not THIS morning!!!!

Tony...you were in Sonoma tech? I did not put 2 and 2 together if you are the same guy that joked with Mike and I(old guys) about coming form behind and passing the young guys on getting everything off the car??

 

I'm going to try and take pictures of my valves as you saw them and post up. I think I can get a picture of a "blended"head to compare.

[tony senese]

Yes Ron, that's me!

[Johnny D]

Yes Ron, that's me!

J~

[tony senese]

Chris, that is the picture from the proposal/petition, The 99 and up heads are different and this pic doesn't show that, but what you are saying is essentially correct.  BUT, when mazda installed and machined the valve seat, they already centered the hole over the v opening for the valve stem.... the concept that the plunge cut is to make up for differences in the castings is pretty funny to me.....

 

What are we actually "making up" for.....  differences in flow due to differences in the casting and machining process at Mazda.... THOSE DIFFERENCES ARE MINOR compared to the differences we have created with this tortured interpretation of the rule.

 

Stock heads are definitely not all the same..... but they are not as different as this proposed rule will make them!!!!

[chris haldeman]

Jonny gets it!! Stock will be terrible for all.

[Ron Alan]

Yes Ron, that's me!

Very cool...always like to put a face and a personality with what gets posted up here! Its amazing how different you look at what is written when you know who it is. Until this weekend i had only met/listened to John Mueller one time before...in a conversation with another driver and he was grumpy and bitching! Now that I have seen the whole package after many personal and group conversations last weekend...it all makes sense now. A joker at heart and very approachable,,,but absolutely committed to trying to find a solution that affects the fewest. Also gets the fact of how we got here and has no interest in letting the ship sink...as none of us do!