174 replies to this topic

[Bench Racer]

Different stroke for different folks.

As long as there are no rules to really bite offenders in the a$$ why change the rules. The Runoffs guys maybe lost their heads, lost their finishing positions, got big ol  from many and life goes on untill the same shit happens again. The trend continues, same as in the past when the cheaters got caught, in the past change the rules to meet the cheats. This time maybe not. At the same time, if there were a death penalty in place for a second offense folks would get real smart in a hurry after their first offense. 

[Steve Scheifler]

Given all the discussion about camber it seems likely that paper will fly freely at majors events next season. Do you really want that kind of chaos? Would you rather everyone ignore it so people who follow the rules continue to lose? Or would you rather change the rules to something that makes sense for everyone? You have to choose or someone will choose for you, but those are the only options.

[FTodaro]

While we are waiting for some final rulings on head gate and parity adjustments, I wanted to add to the topics, the topic of drafting and/or bump drafting in qualifying. I personally like tracks that I can qualify on my own and always feel at a disadvantage at the drafting tracks.

[Steve Scheifler]

Me too. We should team up.

[Bench Racer]

Me too. We should team up.

Your 1.6 couldn't keep up with his COTY. 

[MPR22]

Different stroke for different folks.

As long as there are no rules to really bite offenders in the a$$ why change the rules. The Runoffs guys maybe lost their heads, lost their finishing positions, got big ol  from many and life goes on untill the same shit happens again. The trend continues, same as in the past when the cheaters got caught, in the past change the rules to meet the cheats. This time maybe not. At the same time, if there were a death penalty in place for a second offense folks would get real smart in a hurry after their first offense. 

The problem with death penalties in racing, as in real life, they are final and rely on human beings to adjudicate.  Stiff penalties and fines yes.  Death penalties, not good for the class. 

[Johnny D]

Is there anything in rules about new track records procedure?

Seal the engine coming off track, do a anal cavity search when the weekends over ?

J~

[James York]

Is there anything in rules about new track records procedure?

Seal the engine coming off track, do a anal cavity search when the weekends over ?

J~

In SCCA, no.

[Bench Racer]

The problem with death penalties in racing, as in real life, they are final and rely on human beings to adjudicate.  Stiff penalties and fines yes.  Death penalties, not good for the class. 

The death penalty gets the attention of the cheaters in SCCA SRF.  

[James York]

The death penalty gets the attention of the cheaters in SCCA SRF.  

That is a spec class where equipment is sealed by a sole supplier.  Very easy to place blame on the competitors for out of compliance items.

 

While it is the responsibility of the driver/entrant to race a compliant SM, I understand, we use various suppliers with no guarantees of legality.  If you want to issue the death penalty for a modified restrictor plate, I am fine with that since that comes from enterprises.  But giving someone the death penalty for something they bought, I would never agree as appropriate.  If SM had that rule, then EVERY class in the SCCA should.  We are not unique.

[FTodaro]

I agree with James, In SM we do not have a sealed program with have stock with a long list of allowable modifications and allowances, for valve cuts, crank wt. it goes on and on. I am sure that the volunteers in tech who just want everyone to play fair and have fun would not feel good about issuing death penalties. There is a huge disconnect between authoring rules and implementing them, just look at your US congress.

[Tom Sager]

I agree with James, In SM we do not have a sealed program with have stock with a long list of allowable modifications and allowances, for valve cuts, crank wt. it goes on and on. I am sure that the volunteers in tech who just want everyone to play fair and have fun would not feel good about issuing death penalties. There is a huge disconnect between authoring rules and implementing them, just look at your US congress President.

Fixed it for ya.  

[Jamz14]

Fixed it for ya.

Just like in racing, blame smeone else for all our woes. And avoid blaming ourselves (congress).

[Bench Racer]

Rule life is good, please carry on.  Naw, not really, if rule life was good there wouldn't continue to be new anti cheat rules added. New head rules, REM rule, painting intake, Whistler valve cover off and whatever else.    
  

[Danny Steyn]

Regarding bump drafting. I absolutely LOVE this aspect of the class. Sure I have lost MANY races due to the fact that I have not had a teammate to work with me, but the "teammate-of-convenience" creates such an interesting strategy dynamic on the track. If I help X this lap, will X help me next lap? If I draft by this lap, what should I expect next lap? The permutations are endless, and for me, make the racing so much more of a head game than purely turning a wheel. 

 

I also believe that the acceptance of bump drafting has been a huge factor in reducing the carnage in the past few years. In the past when you would exit a turn carrying more speed than the guy ahead, you would draft up to his bumper and not being allowed to bump, you would go for the pass, as none of us want to lift and have the guy behind close up on you. That created a lot of last second hail mary dive bombs. But with bump drafting, you can transfer your momentum into the car ahead and you both benefit and pull away from the guy behind. 

[Diller]

Danny,

 

I totally agree with your point about bump drafting in the races. I love it and have so much fun with it. It would be interesting though if qualifying were set up such that there was no drafting or bumping at all.

 

I don't know if it would be any better or worse, but interesting for sure. I think it would only help the guy that is by himself and doesn't want to get to know his fellow racers. All the guys I have met at the track would be more than willing to team up and help each other get a fast lap in qualifying regardless of if you are part of a team or not.

[Craig Berry]

Danny, I agree with your Bump Drafting comments. Also, I will give credit where credit is due, I do not know how many times (a couple to the detriment of myself and my teammate) you have timed your Qualifying lap perfectly and "stolen" a pole! I think you are the best at doing that I have seen. Also, (please dont let your head get to big) but you do not seem to have a problem getting others to bump draft with you in a Q session or a race, I have no problems running with you as a pseudo team mate. Just a thought, but maybe a team mate is not critical if your fast!

[Danny Steyn]

Thanks for the kind words Craig. Yup with no official team mates, I do what I can with whoever is out on the track, and I will admit to getting some pretty decent tow's to some unexpected poles!!!

 

And I have always enjoyed worked with you, Drago, Lamb and Stearns in races, but in the race, when we get close to the end, when push comes to shove (if your pardon the expression), we all know who is going to get the shove!!

 

My ARRC video shows it very well. Dillon pushing me, me pushing Dillon, but when it all mattered, Topping pushed Dillon, and so it should be! :-) 

[Michael Novak]

 Yup with no official team mates, I do what I can with whoever is out on the track, and I will admit to getting some pretty decent tow's to some unexpected poles!!!

 

 

Danny--The track whore....!!!!!!!!!!    Don't reread what you wrote as it sounds pretty bad........     Everybody needs a nickname....

[FTodaro]

Regarding bump drafting. I absolutely LOVE this aspect of the class. Sure I have lost MANY races due to the fact that I have not had a teammate to work with me, but the "teammate-of-convenience" creates such an interesting strategy dynamic on the track. If I help X this lap, will X help me next lap? If I draft by this lap, what should I expect next lap? The permutations are endless, and for me, make the racing so much more of a head game than purely turning a wheel. 
 
I also believe that the acceptance of bump drafting has been a huge factor in reducing the carnage in the past few years. In the past when you would exit a turn carrying more speed than the guy ahead, you would draft up to his bumper and not being allowed to bump, you would go for the pass, as none of us want to lift and have the guy behind close up on you. That created a lot of last second hail mary dive bombs. But with bump drafting, you can transfer your momentum into the car ahead and you both benefit and pull away from the guy behind.

Is this include bump drafting in Qualifing, because if I was uncleare, I was limiting my remark to Qualifing only, as well as pointing out that we all rationalize bending rules, in the non NSAA events.