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SCCA/NASA and Mazda Decision Process and Transparency

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#41
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The SMAC met in a conference call on Wed night, 19 Nov.  After a lengthly discussion, the CRB liaisons asked the SMAC to review all of the letters posted to date.  Most of the letters were sent in before the last SM Group release on the 14th, which dropped the time limitation on the plunge cut heads. Accordingly, many of the letters did not deal with the latest release.  The SMAC was asked to prepare a recommendation for the CRB.  

 

The CRB has a conference call on 2 DEC that will be dedicated totally to this issue.  At the conclusion of that call, the CRB will have a recommendation to (officially) present to the BoD for their face-to-face meeting on 13 DEC.  We will publish some type of Advisory as soon as we can after the meeting - probably the next day, and we will give our recommendation to our BoD liaisons at the end of the meeting.  Obviously, this is all compressed way beyond the usual time frame to which we try to adhere.  It is always tough to work through issues, before the end of the year, that show up at the Runoffs.   This is certainly no exception to that problem.

Normally the CRB would send up a REC for 2015, which would be voted on by the BoD, accepting or rejecting the specific proposal as recommended.  I do not expect this to be handled in any other manner.

The only real difference, between this and the normal process, will be that you will have a shorter window to make your comments to the www.crbscca letter system.  Review the CRB recommendation and post a SHORT response to the letter system.  

The CRB has a one day face-to-face meeting on 11 DEC and we will review all of your input.  I will then take that, and the CRB comments, to the BoD when I present all the proposed rule changes on Sat, 13 Dec.

 

 

So enlighten me...  What is the job of the Super Star Miata Pannel that we have been hearing about from the begining?  Seems they are not even in your equation in the above post.  Now the SMAC is going to give their solution to CRB and then the CRB is gonna decide what to do and then YOU are going to go relay that decision to the BOD...

 

So... is the super star pannel now just operating in the shadows while the smac is being trotted out since we the racers want someone who knows the cars and a class to help sort this out? Or... does the CRB BOD etc finally understand we need some people with class specific knowledge to get involved here?

 

Either way the class has spoken loudly that a move to stock heads is a wrong move.


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#42
Johnny D

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Interesting how transparency is in the title of the thread...

 

I would like to see...

 

SMAC (lame duck ??) recommendation to CRB, CRB accepting/declining.

 

CRB recommendation to BoD, Bod accepting/decline.

 

And how's John dyno #'s fit in to the mix at some point.

 

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#43
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I'm having a hard time understanding the criteria for the head testing being done. The plunge cut rule was initiated to bring parity between stock heads which obviously means there's a measureable difference in stock heads. You're measuring a known quantity (plunge cut) to single sample of a statistically distributed group. Unless there are several stock heads knows to represent the range, the results will certainly be skewed based on where in the range the particular test sample lies.

 

Am I missing something?


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#44
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I'm having a hard time understanding the criteria for the head testing being done. The plunge cut rule was initiated to bring parity between stock heads which obviously means there's a measureable difference in stock heads. You're measuring a known quantity (plunge cut) to single sample of a statistically distributed group. Unless there are several stock heads knows to represent the range, the results will certainly be skewed based on where in the range the particular test sample lies.
 
Am I missing something?


Nope. You understand the premise of generating meaningful statistics. Interesting to see if those testing do as well.
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#45
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Kyle,

I don't think anything I could say would be sufficient to enlighten you.

wheel



#46
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The SMAC met in a conference call on Wed night, 19 Nov.  After a lengthly discussion, the CRB liaisons asked the SMAC to review all of the letters posted to date.  Most of the letters were sent in before the last SM Group release on the 14th, which dropped the time limitation on the plunge cut heads. Accordingly, many of the letters did not deal with the latest release.  The SMAC was asked to prepare a recommendation for the CRB.  

 

The CRB has a conference call on 2 DEC that will be dedicated totally to this issue.  At the conclusion of that call, the CRB will have a recommendation to (officially) present to the BoD for their face-to-face meeting on 13 DEC.  We will publish some type of Advisory as soon as we can after the meeting - probably the next day, and we will give our recommendation to our BoD liaisons at the end of the meeting.  Obviously, this is all compressed way beyond the usual time frame to which we try to adhere.  It is always tough to work through issues, before the end of the year, that show up at the Runoffs.   This is certainly no exception to that problem.

Normally the CRB would send up a REC for 2015, which would be voted on by the BoD, accepting or rejecting the specific proposal as recommended.  I do not expect this to be handled in any other manner.

The only real difference, between this and the normal process, will be that you will have a shorter window to make your comments to the www.crbscca letter system.  Review the CRB recommendation and post a SHORT response to the letter system.  

The CRB has a one day face-to-face meeting on 11 DEC and we will review all of your input.  I will then take that, and the CRB comments, to the BoD when I present all the proposed rule changes on Sat, 13 Dec.

wheel

 

its worth posting this again, I think that a good number of the class could back this list. It has a lot of common sense to it. No big winners and no big losers.

 

  1. Stick with the existing plunge cut rule and weights.  Tweak if needed to address standard machine shop cleanup procedures – but no allowance for blend.  No weight penalty for following existing rules.  (Don’t penalize people who faithfully followed the rules set 4 years ago).
  2. If someone wants to run a junk yard head, their choice, but they don’t get a performance benefit via weight offset.  Ie. They run the same weight as legal plunge cut heads.  (Kill the proposal which will lead to an expensive race to cherry pick great stock heads and result in compromised parity)
  3. Evaluate gains from modest STR blends - defining a modest blend and measurement - and add weight to equalize performance if shown from SCCA testing to be  needed.  Add an additional 15 pounds as penalty weight (above any legitimate equalizing weight) to move people to the current legal rule.  This allowance has a sunset of 1 year, thus 2015 only.  (Lots of people got caught up in this thing and this allows them time to transition, but at a modest performance price Ã¢â‚¬â€œ thus keeping participation high and competition fair) 
  4. Anyone outside of a defined modest blend is out of luck.  (You cheat you pay).  

Finally take some money and apply it to a more structured compliance set of testing nation wide – preferably with factory trained Mazda support. 


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#47
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Jim Wheeler and John Mueller, thanks for being as open as your allowed to be.

 

When I read the SMAC is being asked to prepare a recomendation for the CRB and end result the CRB will have a recomendation for the BoD. I look at the committe list of SMAC and CRB members and I quitely say to myseif, Hmmmmm. Am I outspoken, you bet I am, some of these committe members are costing a bunch of Spec Miata racers a lot of uncalled for stress. And now their part of the cleansing process.

 

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#48
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Bench,

 

You make a good point - one that is on the minds of many. But consider this: All the board members' interests and transgressions are now in the daylight. It looks like the BoD is determined to follow protocol, which includes receiving recommendations from the SMAC and the CRB. The BoD has also formed an ad hoc working committee specifically for this case. Once the BoD has received input from all these sources, it can weigh the recommendations with full knowledge of where the interests of all parties lie.


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#49
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Did anyone else notice the Dow and S&P hit record highs this week?

 

(I would happily leave politics to Facebook arguments - but you started it :optimist: )

If you think the Dow and S&P are an indication of a strong economy and good policies I might suggest a few books for you to read. Let me know when they set a record while the national debt and unfunded liabilities are decreasing. 


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#50
wheel

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What Brock said.

 

wheel



#51
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I'm having a hard time understanding the criteria for the head testing being done. The plunge cut rule was initiated to bring parity between stock heads which obviously means there's a measureable difference in stock heads. You're measuring a known quantity (plunge cut) to single sample of a statistically distributed group. Unless there are several stock heads knows to represent the range, the results will certainly be skewed based on where in the range the particular test sample lies.

Am I missing something?

Paul,

You have hit on the problem, it's not possible to measure across 20 years of head production runs with any veracity using only a few samples, or worse still, one. This is in part what drove my suggested 4 point plan (sheesh - sounds like a politician...). Don't waste any time with testing/reporting on stock heads. Instead only spend time measuring legal plunge cuts and then a couple of the blended heads to identify what gains (or losses) might exist. If there are consistent gains to modest blends (modest is NOT a 1" port job), then my proposal is to add performance equalizing weight plus a small penalty weight to drive change over one sunset year.

CNJ
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#52
Parity

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Alright, that's it. I'm making an executive decision to implement CNJ's 4 point plan. Somebody notify the CRB, Mazda, and NASA.


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#53
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Paul,
You have hit on the problem, it's not possible to measure across 20 years of head production runs with any veracity using only a few samples, or worse still, one. This is in part what drove my suggested 4 point plan (sheesh - sounds like a politician...). Don't waste any time with testing/reporting on stock heads. Instead only spend time measuring legal plunge cuts and then a couple of the blended heads to identify what gains (or losses) might exist. If there are consistent gains to modest blends (modest is NOT a 1" port job), then my proposal is to add performance equalizing weight plus a small penalty weight to drive change over one sunset year.
CNJ

r
Craig, after you solve this problem, high chair and I would like you to get a 4 point plan for the economy. King, politician, it's all the same.
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#54
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Common sense may be gaining support.  


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#55
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Skip...well said

 

Jim W...thanks for the update

 

Craig...simple simple solution(even simpler if no one has to look at a blended head :) )

 

Kyle...hang in there buddy!

 

David,,,I know your holding back...  :thumbsup:

 

Jamie...dont be a stranger!

 

 

Anyone else think there is a small chance this all comes full circle back to the rules we have? Modified heads weren't legal at the runoffs, never have been, never will be. The rules were not the issue...lack of enforcement(or knowledge to) was. Can you say imma....nevermind.


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The SMAC met in a conference call on Wed night, 19 Nov.  After a lengthly discussion, the CRB liaisons asked the SMAC to review all of the letters posted to date.  Most of the letters were sent in before the last SM Group release on the 14th, which dropped the time limitation on the plunge cut heads. Accordingly, many of the letters did not deal with the latest release.  The SMAC was asked to prepare a recommendation for the CRB.  

 

The CRB has a conference call on 2 DEC that will be dedicated totally to this issue.  At the conclusion of that call, the CRB will have a recommendation to (officially) present to the BoD for their face-to-face meeting on 13 DEC.  We will publish some type of Advisory as soon as we can after the meeting - probably the next day, and we will give our recommendation to our BoD liaisons at the end of the meeting.  Obviously, this is all compressed way beyond the usual time frame to which we try to adhere.  It is always tough to work through issues, before the end of the year, that show up at the Runoffs.   This is certainly no exception to that problem.

Normally the CRB would send up a REC for 2015, which would be voted on by the BoD, accepting or rejecting the specific proposal as recommended.  I do not expect this to be handled in any other manner.

The only real difference, between this and the normal process, will be that you will have a shorter window to make your comments to the www.crbscca letter system.  Review the CRB recommendation and post a SHORT response to the letter system.  

The CRB has a one day face-to-face meeting on 11 DEC and we will review all of your input.  I will then take that, and the CRB comments, to the BoD when I present all the proposed rule changes on Sat, 13 Dec.

Jim, just to be clear, are you saying that the CRB on 12/2 will be reviewing member letters received up until that day or by 12/1?  


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#57
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Excellent proposal CNJ!  I am going to cut and paste into my last round of letters!


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#58
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Don't forget to copy bod@scca.com also.


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#59
MPR22

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   Just received an E-mail stating that my letter was sent to the CRB for review.  

 

SCCA Recently Submitted Letter #15242

 

Your letter was sent to the Club Racing Board for review

 

 

My letter was submitted to the CRB website on October 21, 2014 8:52 pm.  

 

 

It took over a month for my letter to be forwarded to the committee that is making decisions based on member input.  

 

WTF is wrong with this system? 


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#60
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I received 3 emails today for my submissions.  My first submission was immediately after the initial press release.


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