49 replies to this topic

[Dan Cooper]

I think they say it like, SM is Nat, SCCA written rules.
SMT and SSM are regional and what they want to do and so state what the regional rules are.

2015 Road Racing Schedule

Each Regional weekend will include two points races for all classes, equaling 14 points races for the year (not 16 as previously stated since the April 11-12 Majors does not count for Regional points). Eight races will be required to qualify for a series trophy. Exception: June 5-8 the SRF Festival Race will also count for points, giving SRF and SRF3 a total of 15 races (8 still needed for a trophy).

Date........................... Track...................................... Event

February 20-22.......... Thunderhill............................ Drivers School

March 7-8.................. Thunderhill............................ Regional

March 27-29.............. Laguna Seca........................... Regional

April 11-12................. Thunderhill............................ Major

Apr 30-May 3............. Laguna Seca........................... USCR—Volunteer Support

May 16-17.................. Thunderhill............................ Regional

June 4........................ Laguna Seca........................... Test Day

June 5-7..................... Laguna Seca........................... Regional

July 24-26................... Laguna Seca........................... Regional

August 8-9................. Laguna Seca........................... Pre Reunion—Volunteer Support

August 13-16............. Laguna Seca........................... Reunion—Volunteer Support

Sept 10-13................. Laguna Seca........................... World Challenge—Volunteer Support

Sept 12-13..............Sonoma......................Sonoma Sprints Regional

October 9-11............. Laguna Seca........................... Pro Event—Volunteer Support

October 24-25........... Thunderhill...................Regional
 

Was just saying to Ron yesterday that I don't really post here, just sit back and enjoy the show. 

 

As I don't own a car anymore I don't think I mind what the tires are. What I will say is that it's a shame that the Sonoma weekend isn't over 4th July anymore. That's become my yearly race and I don't want to wait until September!

[CARacer]

Since everyone is piling on with criticism, I feel I should voice my support for this rule. I don't know all the details of how Majors and Runoffs etc. work (I race regional SSM with Alberto), but I remember from our tire rule discussions a few years ago that there wasn't enough local participation in such things to make the subject relevant for our region. It's probably even less so for this year since the Runoffs are in Florida. 

 

The Hoosier contingency likewise has little relevance since it pays a maximum of four drivers per weekend. In reality it's going to be even fewer than that and be mostly the same drivers every weekend. Besides, we have contingency with Toyo, though I don't know the details. Trackside support is also a non-issue since we have two local tire shops selling Toyos at every event (I don't know anything about other regions, but I get the feeling this is unusual and another way our region is spoiled). 

 

For regional racing the Toyo is unquestionably a better tire since it lasts more than twice as long, is easier on the car, and allows NASA crossover.

 

The Hoosiers are only good for, what, 6 heat cycles? So how much "blend period" would be reasonable?

 

I think this is a good rule for the region. I was pleased with the set of RRs I've run (did around 35 heat cycles, if I remember right), and that's what I voted for in the survey. The last time we were all on the same tire was 2012 and I'm looking forward to being a one-tire group again. Bonus: they even arranged contingency. Nice work, SFR board.

[Ron Alan]

BTW...never said I was against the decision...just want to know the details. But pretty sure every other time tire changes have been made...there was a change period. Those who ran SSM have an option to use up old tires...but not the guys who ran SM??

[Todd Tagget]

 

 Trackside support is also a non-issue since we have two local tire shops selling Toyos at every event (I don't know anything about other regions, but I get the feeling this is unusual and another way our region is spoiled). 

 

Am I missing something ? I only know of one ? 

 

 

[Ron Alan]

He may be referring to Roger Krause...at a lot of SCCA events.

[Johnny D]

BTW...never said I was against the decision...just want to know the details. But pretty sure every other time tire changes have been made...there was a change period. Those who ran SSM have an option to use up old tires...but not the guys who ran SM??

Alberto's post (#4) was an email from the office of SFRSCCA.
I don't see it as using up Hoosiers, there are majors, so run them.
Regional was RR's last year, correct ? (Another question I know the answer too)
Still is.
J~

[Ron Alan]

SMT was RR. SM was Hoosier which was a class at every Major and regional. Many ran Hoosiers just to be on the tire though did not do the Majors or runoffs. So now the SM class has been eliminated with no opportunity for some to use up stock. Historically this hasnt happened before...why now is my question?

[Johnny D]

http://copleyraff.bl...-messenger.html

So SM is a Natioanl Class.
SM is not eliminated in SFR.
The SFR rules have not changed from last year in any class. SSM, SMT, SM
The schedule is a little different from last with one Major in Region, but we always had one National at TH.
True ?

Western Conference
Jan. 16-18 - Auto Club Speedway, Fontana, Calif.
March 21-22 – Chuckwalla Valley Raceway, Desert Center, Calif.
April 11-12 – Thunderhill Raceway Park, Willows, Calif.
May 1-3 - Buttonwillow Raceway Park, Buttonwillow, Calif.
May 23-25 - Pacific Raceway, Kent, Wash.
July 3-5 - Portland International Raceway, Portland, Ore.
J~

[Ron Alan]

Hot off the presses:



San Francisco Region
Sports Car Club of America




The only classes in SF Regional races in Group 7 will be SMT and SSM. Anyone who wants to run Hoosiers (the "Majors" tire) can run in Group 5 in ITA. The only class offered for the April 11-12 Major at Thunderhill will be SM (the Runoffs qualifying class).

What part of this is not clear to you John? You can't answer my question so please stop trying. It's going to take someone who was part of the SCCA regional process...which is why I'm hoping Brian will chime in on the thinking. I don't want to run other classes regionally...but the tires I have from 2014 are not legal apparently?

[Alberto]

You guys can always email Brian....

[Ron Alan]

Freaking geniuses around here!

[Bad Rusty]

SFR SCCA NOT having a transition period with tires is a mistake.  Many of us have a handfull of one and two cycle SM7's (And that is also a reason I'm happy to hear about the RR moving forward!), and I guess I can only use them by signing up and paying for another class (ITS/STL) and will still need to buy new tires to run in spec miata the first few events.

 

Like a Good STR, this needed some blending....

[Alberto]

Freaking geniuses around here!

 

Just saying...  People are making assumptions and getting antsy but not taking the easy step of emailing an official to get answers.

[DionJ]

I don't agree with the reasoning behind SFR's decision to do away with the national class. But, since my kid ran SMT last season, and I didn't even renew my SCCA license I'll shut up.

[Ron Alan]

Just saying...  People are making assumptions and getting antsy but not taking the easy step of emailing an official to get answers.

If Brian comes on and sheds some light then this is all public knowledge...and if need be we can have a public discussion. i'm not the only one who has questions. Yes, i can text Brian if I want, but I dont want to regurgitate what he says here. Better it come from him or another SFR SCCA representitive...Michael?? A link with answers works also!

 

Questions...

 

Why no crossover period?(Are these Hoosier wets going to rot?)

What will be the set price for RR's through AIM or TH?

Details of the Toyo contingency program? Or is it AIM tire contingency?

[Brian Ghidinelli]

First, I'm no longer an official spokesperson for the region as I'm not on the board.  That said, I voted on this decision based on survey feedback so I'll share the thought process:

 

 

• Survey response was overwhelmingly in favor of a) using Toyos and b ) being on the same tire.  We arrived at what we felt is the best solution for a big, healthy, equal Group 7 relative to the survey response.
• The reason we allowed Hoosier tires in SFR two seasons ago was specifically because we already knew the Runoffs were coming.  Hoosiers were then, as they are now, legal in "SM", the national class.  In 2015, like then, the National class is not offered on regional race weekends.
• As part of the special dispensation provided to NorPac to qualify for the Runoffs via the Regional route, it required us to offer the National SM class at regional weekends (e.g., you can't run SMT and qualify for the Runoffs in SM).
• This special dispensation is NOT available in 2015 to NorPac participants.  It is only available to the conference hosting the Runoffs, in this case SEDiv.
• As in years past, the SM class (and all National classes) is available at the Thunderhill National race weekend, now the Majors.
• The 2015 contingency program is separate from the Thunderhill Rewards and is completely paid for by Ron Cortez and AIM Tire.  To participate in the contingency program, you must purchase tires from AIM.  You are under no obligation to do so but you will not be eligible for winnings.  It's a completely opt-in program.
• AIM Tire has always provided significant support to the Group 7 competitors and solid trackside support. I understand other geographic regions may not have this support but we have always had excellent support.
• As far as a blend period, we generally have allowed slower tires (RA1, RR) to be blended in with faster tires (Hoosier).  In the goal of keeping costs low, it did not seem prudent to allow the Hoosier to overlap given there are alternate ways of using the tire (Test day, ITA/ITS/STL, etc) and the Majors weekend. 
• Use up your remaining Hoosiers at the Majors - the test day will kill one set, the two race weekend will kill at least another set, if not 2.  There, 3 sets off the table, now you are ready for some RRs.

 

Hope that answers the questions - I think that's all I know!

[Ron Alan]

Thanks Brian! Wont bug you again!

 

First, I'm no longer an official spokesperson for the region as I'm not on the board.  That said, I voted on this decision based on survey feedback so I'll share the thought process:

 

 

• Survey response was overwhelmingly in favor of a) using Toyos and b ) being on the same tire.  We arrived at what we felt is the best solution for a big, healthy, equal Group 7 relative to the survey response. I would have voted the same way. Though a member not a driver.
• The reason we allowed Hoosier tires in SFR two seasons ago was specifically because we already knew the Runoffs were coming.  Hoosiers were then, as they are now, legal in "SM", the national class.  In 2015, like then, the National class is not offered on regional race weekends.SM was not offered but unlike now Hoosier was the tire...not Toyo. Last year of course 3 different tires.
• As part of the special dispensation provided to NorPac to qualify for the Runoffs via the Regional route, it required us to offer the National SM class at regional weekends (e.g., you can't run SMT and qualify for the Runoffs in SM).
• This special dispensation is NOT available in 2015 to NorPac participants.  It is only available to the conference hosting the Runoffs, in this case SEDiv.
• As in years past, the SM class (and all National classes) is available at the Thunderhill National race weekend, now the Majors.
• The 2015 contingency program is separate from the Thunderhill Rewards and is completely paid for by Ron Cortez and AIM Tire.  To participate in the contingency program, you must purchase tires from AIM.  You are under no obligation to do so but you will not be eligible for winnings.  It's a completely opt-in program. Aim supports all the NASA events as well...but NASA contingency is Toyo? Any reason SCCA isnt aligned with Toyo...at least for SMT/SSM? Why would AIM have to pay out for business they are already going to get for the most part?
• AIM Tire has always provided significant support to the Group 7 competitors and solid trackside support. I understand other geographic regions may not have this support but we have always had excellent support.
• As far as a blend period, we generally have allowed slower tires (RA1, RR) to be blended in with faster tires (Hoosier).Beyond stickers this is minimal  In the goal of keeping costs low(the guys who now have to buy RR's?), it did not seem prudent to allow the Hoosier to overlap given there are alternate ways of using the tire (Test day, ITA/ITS/STL, etc) and the Majors weekend. Who tests what they arent going to race? Other classes are not an option for many for reasons beyond money! Majority dont race Majors...why would one go to race with no one to use up tires?
• Use up your remaining Hoosiers at the Majors - the test day will kill one set, the two race weekend will kill at least another set, if not 2.  There, 3 sets off the table, now you are ready for some RRs.  Sure keeping my costs low!

 

Hope that answers the questions - I think that's all I know!

So i guess I will have to get price points and contingency info else where.

[Ron Alan]

So, just to be clear: those running SSM/SMT may as well stay home for the April Major unless they're just looking for track time?

Unless I get a renter, i will have Hosiers for you Al!

[Brian Ghidinelli]

So i guess I will have to get price points and contingency info else where.

 

The contingency is just finalized and should be posted shortly.  It pays 1st and 2nd in SMT and SSM and a random 3rd racer in both classes.

 

You asked why would AIM pay money for business they are going to get anyways?  The answer is because Ron Cortez is a supporter of the region, has been for a long time, and that's why he's backing the program.  He certainly helps to sell more tires - maybe tires you use in another class, or the ones you put on your truck or tow vehicle - but he's first and foremost a supporter of the group.

 

As far as why we aren't aligned with Toyo directly like NASA, that's an SCCA National tree to bark up.  The tire contract comes up at the end of 2015 I believe so you might start getting signatures on a petition now if you want things to change.

 

Last thing - in terms of keeping costs down, you have to remember, if you let people use up old tires, people who can afford it will keep buying new tires so long as it gives them an advantage.  Can't be perfect in all directions but since a Hoosier tire with 3-4 HC won't even get you through a couple of sessions competitively (against someone on stickers or HC1/2), then the estimate was that few people would have many Hoosier tires worth competing on.  So, if you're in the "just use 'em up", there are a number of opportunities to do so, including a very fun race weekend at Thunderhill with the Majors!

[Ron Alan]

Is it Toyo bucks or tires Brian? 

 

As far as my Toyo tire(and support) question...SFR is obviously not following National SCCA and running their own tire rules. I would think the region could also cut their own tire deal? Then again maybe it has...just that Toyo is working with Ron who passes that on to the region?

 

I still think it would be easy to blend in Hoosiers for the first 2 weekends. As Jim would say, the same people who would run them and win will be the same people who but on RR's after and win! It actually gives different guys a chance to win a few tires 

 

But i guess its easier for the region to manage their decision(easy way out!) We need a skunk emoticon!