183 replies to this topic

[wheel]

Understood that the sleeve is metal.  If this is approved, it would only mean that the bushing material would be nonmetallic.  

wheel

[Johnny D]

fergetit....

No lets not, it's important you understand.

Ok let's check your camber in tech. Please take off your U/C L/C and spindle please for inspection. PITA.
And how do you tell if one is bent. "well he's got a lot of camber so he must" But what part ?
Tech needs to find the bent part and prove it. So is it worth it tech ??

Tech says your good, they think.
Ok, you can put it all back together now.

And most are for more camber.

Follow
J~

[ChrisA]

Jim the busshing sleeve is metallic.

 

The inner sleeve of the OEM bushing is metallic too. The inner sleeve is the inner sleeve, not bushing. Let's not make this more complicated than need be.

[38bfast]

No lets not, it's important you understand.

Ok let's check your camber in tech. Please take off your U/C L/C and spindle please for inspection. PITA.
And how do you tell if one is bent. "well he's got a lot of camber so he must" But what part ?
Tech needs to find the bent part and prove it. So is it worth it tech ??

Tech says your good, they think.
Ok, you can put it all back together now.

And most are for more camber.

Follow
J~

You forgot the big part that is a PITA to present for inspection. The front subframe. And trust me that is defiantly a part you would want to look at. 

 

Tech "Thank you, you are compliant and you are good to go" Now get your car on the trailer so you can go home. 

 

Or from tech "We will have to send your subframe to headquarters to verify compliance". Wont it be fun getting the car on the trailer now. 

[Johnny D]

Agreed, remember folks, this stuff does happen from time to time and is for bringing the class back as close as possible.

 

The FPR came about from guys pinching the fuel lines at the FP to get the right pressure.

Do you want to do that or just do the FPR ? No brainer really, IMO.

 

J~

[john mueller]

No lets not, it's important you understand.

Ok let's check your camber in tech. Please take off your U/C L/C and spindle please for inspection. PITA.
And how do you tell if one is bent. "well he's got a lot of camber so he must" But what part ?
Tech needs to find the bent part and prove it. So is it worth it tech ??

Tech says your good, they think.
Ok, you can put it all back together now.
 

 

That's what having a camber range/cap would've been awesome....  You're over, you're DQ'd.    But I guess it's not that easy.

[Steve Scheifler]

Even if the idea of camber limits weren't full of holes, it would needlessly waste a lot of money on tires unless at least 3 degrees, which wouldn't help anyone.

[38bfast]

That's what having a camber range/cap would've been awesome....  You're over, you're DQ'd.    But I guess it's not that easy.

John your right it would be very difficult. The first issue would be to determine the max camber allowed. If we go to the low end to catch every Miata ever made then we would be at less than 2.0 deg. If we go to the high end of the tolerance then we are in the situation of have and have nots, as well as lots more parts bin matching for those that have the means or cheating of parts to get to the number. 

 

If we go on the low end then we will be dealing with premature tire wear. 

 

Then comes compliance checking. Even if tech has a perfect setup to check (a big if) you may have been compliant when you go out to race but you hit a curb hard or have metal to metal that was not your fault and your over speck. a DQ for you. 

 

Every racer wants to get the camber numbers they desire. Its a good thing to save tire wear and improve their performance. So we have a perfect opportunity to give them what they want and make your life simpler. This is all good stuff. The bonus is that it cheap and will pay back the investment. This is a very rare occasion in racing. Lets enjoy it. 

[Rob Burgoon]

I'm just pissed this wasn't done a decade ago.

[38bfast]

I'm just pissed this wasn't done a decade ago.

I am with you on that Rob. I am sure I have pissed away many thousands in tires, replacing none perfect parts and then doing it again and again due to on track issues,

Not sure why it took this long to address a problem that has been a PITA for so many years.

It is Christmas. All the camber I want for under $100.00. And I don't have to buy it over and over again. Is this SM? Pinch me I must be dreaming.

[Steve Scheifler]

The ISC bushing instructions mention having to open up the hole for the sleeve after pressing the bushing into the arm. The picture shows a home made tool of a rod, slit at the end with a piece of sand paper or the like slid into the slot, which is then spun with a die grinder or drill. Crude, but probably effective if done carefully.
Oddly, the hole is larger at the inside end so the sleeve fits fine for 1/3 or even 1/2 it's length if inserted from there.

So I called the guy and he insisted that I should just press the sleeve in without opening up the hole, and it will be fine, gauranteed. I'm not so sure about that but I guess I'll do one, lube it, and check how much force is required to move it when mounted.

Hopefully Whiteline will do a nicer job.

[greengreengreen]

The tubes used for locating the bushings are not round after they are welded.  I have seen lots of variation between control arms.  Since it is very likely a robotic operation there is very little that can be done to control the heat and distortion.  If you press a plastic bushing into the cavity/tube and you have too much interference then the material has no place to go except to constrict the hole for the sleeve.

 

You can open up the cavity on the tube for the bushing but this can be tricky and you run the risk of removing too much material.  The benefit is you get more contact area and a better fit.  I would guess that there are a lot of people will be better off having the bushings installed by someone who knows what they are doing and have developed their own technique.

 

Anyone who manufactures the bushings in going to have to allow for some tolerance for the difference in the tubes ID after they are welded to the other arm components.  It's not a mater of a better job.  You pick a number!

 

Kevin

[Steve Scheifler]

What you say is true, but not entirely the issue. Even before installing the bushing in the arm it is clear that the center hole (for the sleeve) is not of uniform diameter. The sleeve falls in loosely from the inner end, but tightes up to a press fit towards the outer end. The difference is significant. On closer inspection it appears that something fairly course has been used because the bore of the tight end is smooth from the initial cut while the loose end is more textured.

I installed one arm as he recommended. I can move it, but it requires considerable force. That might be good or it might be bad, depending on too many variable to ponder at the moment. I think I'll pull them out and try to open up the tight ends just a bit.

[FTodaro]

When you figure it out, post some pictures.

[Brian129]

Funny, I put my ISC bushings in yesterday, and had no issues at all. The only thing I found funny was they say to use a vise to install, I was able to pop the whie part in with just a firm grip and two hands. Then the metal sleeves went in just as easily. I had no issues with the sleeves either, mine spin freely. I applied a liberal amount of grease to the bushing with the sleeve in, and when mounted they move easily.
Empty


And I never even got up off the floor.
Bushings in

[wheel]

Did you pin the bushing to prevent rotation?  

[Brian129]

Did you pin the bushing to prevent rotation?

I drilled the grease zerk hole, and the grease zerk itself pushes into the bushing.
Is more of a pin needed?

[wheel]

Not sure.  I'm just tuning up the rule clarification.  We will include that the control arm may be modified for pinning the bushing to prevent rotation.

wheel

[Bench Racer]

Brian, curious question. Is the process simpler to remove the spindle, than to pop the upper ball joint and take the upper control arm out?

[Brian129]

Brian, curious question. Is the process simpler to remove the spindle, than to pop the upper ball joint and take the upper control arm out?

I was up on a lift with the hub off and engine out. Not sure if it was the easiest, but banging out the tierod seemed better than a ball joint splitter to the upper ball joint. I didn't want to split the boot. That's why I unbolted the lower ball joint as well.